Mayaheros zebra

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CA cichlid dude
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Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:05 pm

I am looking for some info on this species. I believe they were once considered a variant of urophthalmus. But can someone explain the relation or differences?
This fish at this resort in Xcaret, Mexico looks like m. Zebra too me, but can someone confirm.

PS: I am working on hosting them on Photobucket. Having some trouble, so bare with me.

Thanks,

Steve [IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201708 ... 4b7e3e.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201708 ... 623d46.jpg[/IMG]


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Lisachromis
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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by Lisachromis » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:26 pm

Photobucket has changed their policy. Unless you pay a decent amount of money, they no longer allow third party hosting. If the files are not too big, you can upload them directly in your reply.

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EC
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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by EC » Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:00 am

CA cichlid dude wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:05 pm
This fish at this resort in Xcaret, Mexico looks like m. Zebra too me, but can someone confirm.
Hi,
zebra live only in cenote xlacah at dzibilchalun, near merida. This is a short, high body fish, perhaps amarum, but probably is normal urophthalmus. You have to do some measurement to recognize it. Here one of my zebra photo: http://www.fishbase.org/photos/Thumbnai ... cies=zebra. I've never been in xcaret (I don't like tourist park) but I've seen many coastal urophthalmus from laguna de puerto morelos to cenote manati or xcacel (akumal). Going to south seem to be urophthalmus again (muyil, chunyaxche', sian ka'an, san pedro, xcalak, bacalar) but to the north you can see amarum in cancun (laguna nichupte'), porto juarez (laguna del manati and laguna chacmuchuc) and isla mujeres (salina grande), here few fish in 2008 perhaps now extinct.

Ciao Enrico

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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:13 pm

Lisachromis wrote:Photobucket has changed their policy. Unless you pay a decent amount of money, they no longer allow third party hosting. If the files are not too big, you can upload them directly in your reply.
Thanks Lisa. That explains it. Any recommendations on a better site to host?

Steve


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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:27 pm

EC wrote:
CA cichlid dude wrote:
Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:05 pm
This fish at this resort in Xcaret, Mexico looks like m. Zebra too me, but can someone confirm.
Hi,
zebra live only in cenote xlacah at dzibilchalun, near merida. This is a short, high body fish, perhaps amarum, but probably is normal urophthalmus. You have to do some measurement to recognize it. Here one of my zebra photo: http://www.fishbase.org/photos/Thumbnai ... cies=zebra. I've never been in xcaret (I don't like tourist park) but I've seen many coastal urophthalmus from laguna de puerto morelos to cenote manati or xcacel (akumal). Going to south seem to be urophthalmus again (muyil, chunyaxche', sian ka'an, san pedro, xcalak, bacalar) but to the north you can see amarum in cancun (laguna nichupte'), porto juarez (laguna del manati and laguna chacmuchuc) and isla mujeres (salina grande), here few fish in 2008 perhaps now extinct.

Ciao Enrico
Hi Ciao Enrico,

Thank you for the information. Your description and the Fish Base picture fit the description of the fish in question but I will find another hosting site so everyone can view to confirm.
The locale is far. I am wondering if this resort bright them in, or if they really are locally found urophthalmus. They have shallow clear canals filled with them, and you can see many spawning pairs. Thought I also saw some unidentifiable gambusia species in there too.

Steve


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Lisachromis
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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by Lisachromis » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:06 am

CA cichlid dude wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:13 pm
Lisachromis wrote:Photobucket has changed their policy. Unless you pay a decent amount of money, they no longer allow third party hosting. If the files are not too big, you can upload them directly in your reply.
Thanks Lisa. That explains it. Any recommendations on a better site to host?

Steve


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Not really no. I haven't done any different hosting sites; so I have no recommendations for you. You should be able to upload the photos here. If not send me a pm and I will see what we can do.

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Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:09 pm

Hopefully this works.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/131049957@N04/6c3A3Q

Steve


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Lisachromis
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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by Lisachromis » Sun Sep 03, 2017 7:54 am

Did a couple of screen shots of your fish.
mayaheroszebra.jpg
mayaheroszebra2.jpg

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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:00 am

Lisachromis wrote:Did a couple of screen shots of your fish.
mayaheroszebra.jpg
mayaheroszebra2.jpg
Thanks Lisa, I really appreciate your help.

Any thoughts on the identity of this fish?

Steve


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Ken Davis
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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by Ken Davis » Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:36 am

from everything I can find is only found at Xlaka Cenote, but if you have ever collected you know many fish have wider distribution than the literature states, is obviously different from the normal uro
An empty tank is a terrible thing to waste!

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Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:06 am

Ken Davis wrote:from everything I can find is only found at Xlaka Cenote, but if you have ever collected you know many fish have wider distribution than the literature states, is obviously different from the normal uro
Thanks Ken. Are zebra available in the hobby?

What I am wondering if this resort had collected and established a population in this man made canal. The canal has a pretty dense population, but in certain parts you can see pairs with fry.
But locally you would only find urophthalmus I believe.

Steve

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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:17 am

Want to bump this up to get opinions on this fish in question. Can anyone tell if it is m. Zebra or m. urophthalmus?

Thanks in advance,

Steve


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Bas Pels
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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by Bas Pels » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:02 pm

I wonder whether you want opinions. I think splitting up M uropthalmus is nonsense, but that is just what I think.

If the majority of scolars (i'm not one of them) thnks differently, then the splitting up will be accepted. I don't think this majority already has made up their minds

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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:01 pm

Bas Pels wrote:I wonder whether you want opinions. I think splitting up M uropthalmus is nonsense, but that is just what I think.

If the majority of scolars (i'm not one of them) thnks differently, then the splitting up will be accepted. I don't think this majority already has made up their minds
Thanks Bas, I was wanting opinions. I am very curious about opinions on splitting up m. Urophthalmus and the fish in the photograph I took.

Steve

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Willem Heijns
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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by Willem Heijns » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:37 am

Hubbs (1936) described 9 subspecies of urophthalmus from the cenotes of Yucatán and interestingly remarked: "other collections from the hundreds of unsampled waters within the general range of the species will produce a full series of intermediate races". Kullander (2003) raised all these subspecies to specific rank, not because he had studied them, but because he does not believe in subspecies as such. Barrientos-Medina (2005) did study them and recognized all as species, noting that another 8 species awaited formal description. Říčan et al (2016) followed Barrientos-Medina and listed them as species. The latter authors did not include them in their ddRAD analysis.
All "species" are distinguished by morphological characters (coloration, meristics) and no (molecular) phylogenetic analysis has been done as far as I know. Since morphology is not very reliable in this type of analysis (convergence, plasticity) and no DNA studies are yet available, I treat all of them as conspecific and belonging to Mayaheros urophthalmus with a substantial geographic variability as is the case with many heroine cichlids.
Slàinte mhath!

Uilleam

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Re: Mayaheros zebra

Post by CA cichlid dude » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:25 am

Willem Heijns wrote:Hubbs (1936) described 9 subspecies of urophthalmus from the cenotes of Yucatán and interestingly remarked: "other collections from the hundreds of unsampled waters within the general range of the species will produce a full series of intermediate races". Kullander (2003) raised all these subspecies to specific rank, not because he had studied them, but because he does not believe in subspecies as such. Barrientos-Medina (2005) did study them and recognized all as species, noting that another 8 species awaited formal description. Říčan et al (2016) followed Barrientos-Medina and listed them as species. The latter authors did not include them in their ddRAD analysis.
All "species" are distinguished by morphological characters (coloration, meristics) and no (molecular) phylogenetic analysis has been done as far as I know. Since morphology is not very reliable in this type of analysis (convergence, plasticity) and no DNA studies are yet available, I treat all of them as conspecific and belonging to Mayaheros urophthalmus with a substantial geographic variability as is the case with many heroine cichlids.
Thanks Willem, this explains a lot.

Steve


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