Tilapia "Cross River"?

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LewC
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Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by LewC » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:41 pm

At our Ohio Cichlid Association Extravaganza last weekend, looking for something different, I picked up some fry called Tilapia "Cross River". In a book, I found a picture captioned "Tilapia species similar to guineenses from the Cross River, Cameroon." Is there a good chance that this is what I have? Has this fish been identified or formerly described?

Lew

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Lisachromis
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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by Lisachromis » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:54 pm

They may be from this:

http://www.forum.apistogramma.com/archi ... t-467.html
10-18-2002, 06:57 PM
Dear Friends,

Last night, Thursday, Oct. 17, I attended my first, but not last, North Jersey Aquarium Society meeting. The NJAS is one of the oldest, most well known aquarium societies in the country. It's membership includes such illuminaries as Dr. Paul Loiselle and Rosario LaCorte.

My principal reason for attending was to hear Dr. Ronald Coleman speak. Ron was flown in from California, as part of the ACA speaker's program, and discussed the evolution of parental investment in broodcare. Although many fish were included in his presentation, both fresh water and marine, he focused on cichlid species from Costa Rica and Nicaraqua. It was truly a fascinating program.

Also attending was Dr. Paul Loiselle. We had the opportunity to discuss the formation and follow up of species maintenace programs, but more on that subject later.

Following the program, I was able to purchase of bag of fry, for very little money, that was donated to the society by Dr. Loiselle. These fry are F1 "Tilapia" sp. from the Cross River in southern Nigeria which is located near the Cameroonian boarder. This undescribed dwarf cichlid was featured recently on the cover of the July edition of TFH Magazine as a new cichlid species with no name and is a delayed mouthbrooder. When this fish is scientifically described, a new genus will most likely be created for it.

The fry were bred by Dr. Loiselle himself from wild caught stock originally imported by Oliver Lucanus.

I'll keep the Forum posted as developments unfold.

Thank you.

Randall Kohn
If you have access to the January 2003 issue of "Cichlid News," this dwarf cichlid is featured as the "Mystery Fish" on page 4. Please note, however, the "Cichlid News" photo does not do the fish justice. It doesn't depict very much of the red coloration on the unpaired fins.

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Thomas Andersen
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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by Thomas Andersen » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:22 am

Lisa, I think the fish Randall refers to above, is the fish we now know as Etia nguti:
Etia nguti
Etia nguti
p00201.jpg (47.87 KiB) Viewed 4741 times
Etia nguti is found in the Cross River together with a potentially undescribed Tilapia species, T. sp. "Mamfe":
T. sp. "Mamfe"
T. sp. "Mamfe"
Photo by Ariel Bornstein - http://www.blackwaterfish.com

Is this the fish you're thinking of, Lew?

All the best, Thomas

LewC
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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by LewC » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:52 am

I'm not sure. The ones I have are only about 1" SL.

Here's a link to another strand on this forum about the same fish. (You're in this one, also, Thomas.)
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2494

I'm curious about the spots seen clearly in some pictures, faintly in others, and not seen at all in some others. One is on the dorsal fin the other is along the flanks near the front of the fish. Most of my have the dorsal spot, but not the spot on the flanks. It is a sex thing or age thing?

I appreciate all the help with this! I'm new on this forum and am impressed.

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Darrell Ullisch
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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by Darrell Ullisch » Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:36 pm

Tilapia Species "Cross River" and "Mamfe" are the same fish. Loiselle distributed the fish as "Cross River", I bought a bag of young at OCA about 6-7 years ago. I was unable to breed them, so I passed them to another breeder in the club who found them quite prolific. However, they were also quite aggressive, and the male knocked off the female of the pair I gave him.

My understanding is that they were collected in the Cross River at Mamfe, and for some reason, some sources referred to them by the name of the town, while others referred to them by the name of the river.

They are quite variable depending on mood, but the delayed MB must be the Etia nguti, as the "Mamfe/Cross River" is a typical Tilapia substrate spawner.
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by LewC » Sun Nov 25, 2007 9:11 am

That means, if I understand correctly, that the fish in the Bornstein photo is what I have, not the ones in the Juan Miguel photo nor the ones in the forum strand I cited. That makes sense in that many of my fry have the spot in the dorsal fin, and none of the E. nguti photos show that.

Thanks again!

Lew
Last edited by LewC on Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Randall
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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by Randall » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:14 pm

Hello friends,

Yes, indeed, the fish that Randall was referring to is Etia nguti. I posted that little story on apistogramma.com before Stiassny & Schliewen's monograph describing the genus and species was published and before the fish entered the hobby. The fish that I got from Paul Loiselle was actually Tilapia sp. "Mamfue," a Tilapia species from the Mamfue River, Cross River system, in Cameroon. Anton Lamboj seems to think that this taxon may be a population of T. guineensis; Ulrich Schliewen, however, suggests that it is an undescribed species.

On an aside, my bag of "dwarf" cichlid T. sp. "Mamfue" fry grew up to be eight-inch monsters that ate $250 worth of aquatic plants. Breeding pairs excavated three-inches of gravel down to the plate glass, moved large rocks, and had a nasty habit of killing all the other fishes in 55-gallon tanks. Otherwise, they were great fish to observe and were great at clearing large aquaria of all duckweed.

All the best,

Randall Kohn

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Kyle May
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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by Kyle May » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:08 am

Hello all,

Sorry to regenerate confusion in this thread, but can you clear the name up for me?
I've got a 20+ individuals of the species that is identified in the Bornstein photograph above as Tilapia sp. mamfe.
Shall I refer to these individuals as "Mamfe" or as "Mamfue" as is suggested in Randall Kohn's reply?

I understand that they have not been scientifically described, but I'd like to make sure that I refer to the fish using the currently accepted name. I plan to breed them and am very strict to make sure that I don't pass along species unless they are properly identified.

Thanks for your help,

Kyle May
OCA
USA
Kyle May
Ohio Cichlid Association
Northern Ohio, USA

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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by Randall » Sun Jan 20, 2008 11:42 am

Hello Kyle,

Either informal designation is correct. The place name is actually "Mamfé," but in their description of Etia Nguti, Schliewen & Stiassny cite the river name, "Mamfue."

All the best,

Randall Kohn

LewC
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Re: Tilapia "Cross River"?

Post by LewC » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:05 pm

The photo in the current Buntbarche Bulletin of Tilapia "Cross River" is exactly what I have!

Lew

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