Cross bred cichlids

Discussion on general cichlid care and issues. ID cichlids you don't know the origin of. Mixed tank questions.

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Lisachromis
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Cross bred cichlids

Post by Lisachromis » Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:13 am

I was just curious as to how many people have gotten crossbred fish in their own tanks and what species they were (if known). Personally, I haven't had any in mine, but only because when I noticed that some of my fish became hyperdominant, I removed them so I didn't get crossbred fry. I was thinking we could list the crosses we've had here so we can know what will cross in some of our tanks.

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Philippe Burnel
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Post by Philippe Burnel » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:01 am

Many fishes can cross !
have a look here :
http://perso.club-internet.fr/burnel/ho ... brides.htm

Ad Konings said to me that somebody (K Fohrman but I'm not sure) got a n hybrid between 2 moorii.........
1 Cyrtocara moorii and 1 Tropheus moorii :roll: :roll: :shock: :shock: :shock: :D

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Post by mzapater » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:25 am

Once I fell in love with Aulonocara OB that I found in a dealers shop. I bought them and soon got lots of fry.

When I knew that they were hybrids between Aulonocara and Pseudotropheus it was hard to get rid of the little fish, but I did it. I just kept an adult male who died of old age.

I also had once hybridization between C. nigrofasciatum and C. octofasciatum, resulting in huge and beautiful and sterile fish...

Greetings to you all, and happy new year,

Manuel...
http://www.ciclidos.org

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Philippe Burnel
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Post by Philippe Burnel » Tue Dec 30, 2003 11:35 am

I don't think that Aulonocara OB is a cross between Aulono and Pseudo !
it seems to be a selection from various variants of Aulonocara.

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Post by MC1979 » Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:25 am

Philippe Burnel wrote:I don't think that Aulonocara OB is a cross between Aulono and Pseudo !
it seems to be a selection from various variants of Aulonocara.
P. I don't know that anyone is quite sure of the origins of the OB Peacock, and which species were used to make this blotchy hybrid.

No hybrids in my aquaria to answer the original question.


Apparently hybrids aren't confined to the our man made ones either...some food for thought:

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/links/ ... 05.x/full/

Interesting stuff indeed.

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Post by matt99fish » Tue Jan 13, 2004 11:25 pm

From what I've heard, OB peacocks are from some type of mbuna crossed with a peacock and/or freyeri. I also have one of these, cool fish, didnt know it was a hybrid at the time but it doesnt really bother me now, I dont buy anything if I think its a hybrid though.
- Matt

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Post by migerrin » Wed Mar 10, 2004 7:57 pm

My female electric blue johanni just had frye fathered by a p. socolofi about 10 days ago. They are doing great.

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Post by Barbie » Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:42 pm

I bought a P. saulosi trio at an auction, (1 male, 2 females) and bought the spare one that was marked as a male, just in case I lost the one in the trio (that would be just the way my luck goes). When I got home, I tossed that extra male into my P. demasoni tank. It wasn't quite colored up, was more of a rich lavender than blue, but definitely was far from orange. Imagine my disgust when she turned out to be a female with dominance issues and was holding 3 days later after the demasoni got done with her. She never did spawn with the saulosi male, and would whip the snot out of him occasionally. He just couldn't put her in line like the demons had I guess.

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Cross-breeds

Post by Willy » Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:44 pm

Hello,
There are a lot of cichlid-species that will interbreed.
Only one solution,don't keep them together in one tank,don't even give them a chance.
It is not only bad to mix different species,but local varieties to.
Now that that we just discover so much new varieties of cichlids,it is very important to keep the breedinglines pure.
I read a lot about this,and saw that closely related species not even interbreed in the same waters,mostly is is a matter of the circumstances in our aquariums.
The USA is famous for making new kinds of colors and forms from our tropical fish. STOP IT!!!
Mother nature can do this better,see only Lake Malawi where evolution is still in progress.
Wipe out the "Parrotcichlids","Balloonrams" and other shit,horrible they are!
Sorry that i let myself go this much,but this makes my blood cok.
In Europe here we have the same problem to of course,but the level of breeding cross-breds and breeding-forms is very down,comparing to the USA and Asia.
So,when your fish do some mixing keep the young for yourself or destroy them,it will keep our hobby on a higher level! Thank you!
A worried Dutchman
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Post by Lisachromis » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:32 pm

More than just the US create crosses. It's an unfortunate aspect of the fish hobby. Some people do it by accident and then can't stand to deal with it (but they are alive...), others do it on purpose to try and sell it to make a buck. :(

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Cross-breds

Post by Willy » Thu Nov 25, 2004 10:52 pm

And doing for money is even more bad!
I breed a lot of different cichlids and life-bearers and seriously sort out the bad fry.
I can always sell my young fish for a good price,i don't need some ugly bred-forms for that.
It is the quality you bring and not the quantity.
Which place you can bring 1200 young cichlids,i take just the 100 best ones to keep the quality high,and that is what every fish-breeder should do.
I hope everybody agrees on that!
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Post by Barbie » Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:00 am

Just to clarify a bit here, very rarely are the hybrid fish "created" here in the US, there just tends to be a market for them here. I constantly see hybrid fish showing up on availability lists for transshipped fish from Asian markets, and there are any number of hybrid synos coming out of Czech breeders tanks. Just because some people don't bother to educate themselves about the fish they potentially are causing to be perpetuated does not mean that in general all US hobbyists are immoral and stupid, anymore than it means that all people from the Netherlands are prone to judge unfairly. No?

BTW I did "cull" my hybrid fry I received from my "cross" spawning.

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Cross-breeds

Post by Willy » Fri Nov 26, 2004 5:30 am

I am sorry that you took this so personal.
I never said something about Americans are stupid or something in this direction,to bad this is what you understand this out of my comment.
Maybe my choice of words was bad.
Anyway,it its true that the market for such fish is much bigger in theUSA and Asia then here in Europe.
It sounds hard,but you should kill them like you do,and be proud for this to,pespect.
Yes only people who don't educate themselfs about any issues can make this mistakes.
I could tell you more about this then you maybe think,i was in the USA for many times and was shocked about the educatio-level of much people there.
Why of lot of people there think that Europe is one country,that Kopenhagen(capitol of Danmark)is our capitol.that we live in windmills,walk on wooden shoes,that Holland is inside our capitol Amsterdam or even near to the northpole and many more examples like that???
And i am talking about high-class people here!
Forgive me that i have my own opinion and that we're Dutch are very open in showing that,better than be a hypocrate...
But forget the last things,this is not the time and place for this.
I am happy that you don't belong to this people and you should be to.
Good luck my friend!
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Post by Lisachromis » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:32 am

I have to agree on many Americans not knowing much on Europe. (or other countries for that matter). On a trip to Florida, someone seriously asked me this once....


"What did you do with your sled dogs?"

It surprised me, but being one to have a little fun sometimes, I told him I left them at the border, since there was no snow across the border, and we rented a car. :lol:

****

Beyond this, cross breeding is bad, and we should try to educate people on this anywhere we can. :evil:

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Post by Greg Steeves » Fri Nov 26, 2004 11:41 am

Willy

I hope we meet someday and get to chat on this and other subjects because I'm in total agreement with you. Breeders and fish farms that intentionally cross species or unintentionally cross (pond flooding perhaps) fish, no matter how beautiful the result, is immoral in my mind. Naturally occuring fish are beautiful on thier own. They don't need our help. Although the breeders that practice this irk me greatly, I am most disturbed with the average aquarist that buys these creations!!!!!
If there were no market for hybrids, the people selling them would not be able to bring them into the hobby.


You can keep your parrot cichlids, your OB peacocks, your red white and blue nyererei... If they were meant to be, nature would have created them.

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Post by Ken Boorman » Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:03 pm

Gas wrote: Although the breeders that practice this irk me greatly, I am most disturbed with the average aquarist that buys these creations!!!!!
If there were no market for hybrids, the people selling them would not be able to bring them into the hobby.


You can keep your parrot cichlids, your OB peacocks, your red white and blue nyererei... If they were meant to be, nature would have created them.
Most average aquarists are not aware that the fish they see and buy from either the Local Fish Store, or Walmart (e.g.) are not all naturally occuring forms or species. The percentage of "fishkeepers" or "aquarium owners" who only have one tank as a display in their living room I suspect is fairly high. These kinds of people have no interest other than having pretty or cool-looking fish for their display. So what if they have to replace sick and dead fish every other week? They can afford to so why should they bother learning about them? These are the kinds of people who keep the industry going by purchasing the big filters etc. because they have been told "it'll keep the water clean so you don't need to do water changes" kind of things.
Shame really. If only there was a way we could get to them.....
Ken.
Last edited by Ken Boorman on Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cross breeds and other things

Post by Willy » Fri Nov 26, 2004 3:05 pm

Sorry guys that i got so carried away,sometimes the fire inside must come out.
I really hope that we as serious hobbysts can do something about the bad matters that we face in our hobby.
For the newcomers it is very difficult of course,they want to buy what they like.
A lot of shopkeepers only think about money and not of keeping their customers on a long term.
Yes,it is nice when this people come back every two weeks for some new fish.
Mister my big cichlid eats all my kardinals,why?
And my scalares are behaving so strange inside my fishbowl.
Thank God,not everybody is the same.
Wouldn't it be better,that we breed all of our own fish,for stopping this bad business and saving the fish in their own habitats?
Everytime you can read about people that go to other country's to catch their own fish,which is not so bad,but hearing after one year when they come back that this habitat has vanished completely,including all the animals and plants which were living there before.
Maybe it was just a year ago that they discovered new species there,and already gone,for ever...
This really really worries me very much!!!
People i am very worried,what must we do?
Lets put some energy together and lets think good about this...
Willy
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Post by KevinB » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:04 pm

Willy,

It is unfortunate that you have been offended by a few individuals who do not know their geography.

It is just as unfortunate that you choose to characterize an entire country of hobbyests based upon this limited experience.

Kevin

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