Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Discussion about cichlids from Madagascar and India
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ciclasoman
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Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by ciclasoman » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:10 am

Paretropline cichlids have swimming bladder modifications that depending on the species increase hearing abilities. This is the case for the deep bodied (lacustrine) group to which menarambo belongs. In previous years I would closely observe spawns to remove them as in most occasions the parents would eat them soon after particularly when the light went out. These cichlids have highly seasonal spawning habits- I presume quite environment of a lake along with ambient light from the moon allow them to care for their little ones. To help the parents guard and care for their offspring, I removed all sources of vibration from an aquarium that houses my breeding group- the return hose in my wet-dry filter was suspended away from the tank to avoid transferring pump vibrations. It took close to 6 months for the fish to stop eating their eggs but finally, two pairs spawn close to each other. To this date, a little over 3 weeks after a spawn, the parents have been diligently guarding their babies. It has been a wonderful sight and I have learnt a little about Paretroplus breeding behavior ;-)
https://youtu.be/lorqBOw3qtc

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a2ana
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by a2ana » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:51 am

Thank you. I will have to spend the rest of this weekend and transform my fish room/garage and reduce/eliminate any noise and vibration source. My lone pair have been in breeding mode for the past 4 weeks clearing sand and slapping each other and courting continuously. It’s a beautiful site. Hope to see a beautiful result as well.
Yes, in the past once the lights go out, the eggs are gone.
I would love to see some little ones soon.
Thanks again.
Veloma.
Henintsoa


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a2ana
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by a2ana » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:51 am

Thank you. I will have to spend the rest of this weekend and transform my fish room/garage and reduce/eliminate any noise and vibration source. My lone pair have been in breeding mode for the past 4 weeks clearing sand and slapping each other and courting continuously. It’s a beautiful site. Hope to see a beautiful result as well.
Yes, in the past once the lights go out, the eggs are gone.
I would love to see some little ones soon.
Thanks again.
Veloma.
Henintsoa


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Lisachromis
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by Lisachromis » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:16 am

Leave a small night light on near the tank when they lay eggs.

ciclasoman
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by ciclasoman » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:53 pm

A night light does help, thanks for the suggestion. Here is another video, 1 month after spawn and now another pair is guarding their wigglers
https://youtu.be/QBF2bFcauRU

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Darrell Ullisch
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by Darrell Ullisch » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:01 am

Interesting, but what makes you believe it was the removal of the vibrations and not simply natural maturation of the individuals involved? Your post implied that it was six months after removing the sound before they succeeded, and previously you had been removing eggs to hatch. I've found on some species of Cichlids that removal of the eggs can condition the fish to expect said removal and eat the eggs if they are not removed. It can take quite a while to overcome that conditioning.

The only way to prove your theory would be to return the source of the vibrations and see if they react by eating the next spawn. I probably wouldn't take the chance myself, but unless such a test occurs, you cannot say definitively that the sound was the problem, only suggest that it might be one possible concern.
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

ciclasoman
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by ciclasoman » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:13 am

Thanks for the feedback. This is not a controlled experiment but an observation. I have more than 15 years maintaining Paretroplus. I can tell you with certainty that 100% of the time the eggs would get eaten shortly after spawning. I have ceased to collect the eggs because people are no longer interested on the especies as in years past but despite leaving the eggs, the behavior didn’t change, the parent still ate the eggs before long. It wasn’t until I modified the tank that egg predation stopped. So I guess I could say there is a strong association with the change and proving causation requires more study.

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Darrell Ullisch
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by Darrell Ullisch » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:28 pm

I knew you had a long history with Madagascar species, didn't know if this species was a recent acquisition or not. Obviously not! :) I'm just always interested in the details, thanks!
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

Bas Pels
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by Bas Pels » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:30 am

Vibrations could also be the key to solving problems with othe Paretroplus species. As fas as I know (not heving experience with any of them) they are all rather hard to breed

FaithOlson
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Re: Noise and vibration affect Paretroplus parental behavior

Post by FaithOlson » Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:54 am

The parental behaviour of the Madagascan cichlid,Paratilapia polleni, was studied in the laboratory. According to current hypotheses of phylogenetic intrarelationship for the family Cichlidae,Paratilapia is a representative of a phylogenetically primitive cichlid lineage, and as such is of particular interest in comparative evolutionary studies. Given the basal phylogenetic placement ofParatilapia it seems reasonable to expect that, if maternal participation in brood care arose within the extant Cichlidae, then the proposed plesiomorphic system of extensive male care of eggs and embryos may be retained in this taxon. This is not the case, and already by the fertilized-egg interval male and female roles inParatilapia are strongly differentiated with the female as the primary care giver. In addition to specialized behavioural roles, a unique egg morphology and mobile egg mass is described forParatilapia. The results of the study are discussed in the context of theories of the evolution of maternal brood care within the Cichlidae.

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