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Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:44 am
by Marko Lenac
as I see many owners of the cf. ornatus around I wonder did someone spawn them? also what was the size of the parents?

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 6:26 am
by Rivulatus
We have raised the question abot the true name of these fish on our local forum as well. But a question unanswered is if gephyrum is a natural hybrid between ornatum and atromaculatum. Does that not require that both species then is present in that same system? Allso the typus exampel of gephyrum has a max lenght at 12cm (juvenil?).

We raised the question to mr. Sven O. Kullander and he said that the species is undestudied as earlier mentioned. Young specimen can be separated by number of fin rays in dorsal fin is for ornatum (16), and gephyrum (17). Adult individuals can be specied by the black crossband running allong the body where ornatum has unbroken bands and gephyrum has broken bands near the base of the dorsal fin and abdomen.

Kullander has got some fully grown species from the area and will hopefully soon shed some more light on the subject.

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 4:11 pm
by Mark Smith
It seems quite premature to suggest that this cichlid may be a hybrid. They all seem quite consistent in form and color patterning. When hobbyists cannot figure out new species that enter into the hobby, often times the word "hybrid" comes out in an attempt to explain, what is in all likelihood, a new, undescribed species.

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:25 am
by Rivulatus
I was not raising the issue of these fish as being hybrids myself just questioning Eigenmann (1924) that suggested that the ornatum from Rio san juan and Rio dagoa might be a natural hybrid based on coloration at a small size. Sorry if I was not clear of that in my first post.

I concur of the idea that it instead might just be a new species instead. But it`s hard to tell since theres no pictures veified of the true ornatum. I really hope mr. Kullander will shed some more light on the subject. Anyhow, they are great fish to keep and the veil of mystery of the true name adds to my intrigue.

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:11 am
by Mark Smith
Due to location (if the collecting locality that has been told to us is correct, that is) it is not "C". ornatum. Either way, I agree with you that it is a great addition to the hobby. Mine are now 18 cm total length. They were purchased in June 2010 when only 2 cm total length. Not too aggressive either.

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:29 pm
by aclockworkorange
Sorry to dig up a "zombie thread," but does anyone have any further thoughts on this thread now that some time has passed and perhaps some fish have been purchased and grown out?

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 5:17 pm
by Mark Smith
I am curious too, especially if someone have spawned in captivity
yet. I know that some have been around in the hobby for over 4 years now, which should be long enough for someone to have spawned them?

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:46 am
by Marko Lenac
Mark Smith wrote:I am curious too, especially if someone have spawned in captivity
yet. I know that some have been around in the hobby for over 4 years now, which should be long enough for someone to have spawned them?
yes, that is what I wonder too...

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:05 pm
by fevelasco
I found recent YouTube video posted by an aquarist from Colombia "salazarcasas" labeled "ExCichlasoma ornatum". The video is interesting in that the fish, which is housed in a mixed community aquarium, appears to be different from the fish that has been recently collected and introduced into the hobby. Here is a screen capture from a frame early in the video:
exCichlasoma cf. ornatum.png
exCichlasoma cf. ornatum.png (150.6 KiB) Viewed 2734 times
The video may be found here: http://youtu.be/yTjzCHIgpiE

When I first saw the video, it reminded of the photo from the 1980s that Willem posted in this thread and which is featured in the CRC species profile: http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?id=928

An earlier video posted by this person shows juveniles labeled "Cichlasoma ornatum Popayan, Colombia" which is where this aquarist is located (according to the YouTube profile). The map below indicates where this region is located in Colombia:
Popayan, Colombia.png
Popayan, Colombia.png (185.54 KiB) Viewed 2734 times
If one considers the coloration of atromaculatum and ornatum (assuming it's the fish in the video), one might understand why Eigenmann (1922) made the following observation about gephyurm (if that's the fish we are keeping now):

"Its coloration is so peculiar that it might well be a hybrid between C. atromaculatum and C. ornatum"

I'm curious what folks think?

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:20 am
by RobinH
The ones that we have in Sweden/Norway is comfirmed Gephyrum by Sven Kullander according to Alf Stalsberg.

Re: "Heros" ornatus

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:26 pm
by Mark Smith
Good confirmation of what we thought what species it might be.