Pterophyllum- how many species?

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Bojan Dolenc
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Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by Bojan Dolenc » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:14 am

At this page you can find 42 species of genus Pterophyllum? :shock:
http://zipcodezoo.com/Animals/P/Pterophyllum_haydenii/
"Members of the genus Pterophyllum

There are approximately 42 species in this genus:

P. aegvale · P. aequale · P. affine · P. altum (Deep Angelfish) · P. approximatum · P. braunianum · P. braunsii · P. brevipenne · P. carnallianum · P. cycadites · P. daihoense · P. decussatum · P. dumerilii · P. eimekei · P. eimeki · P. fromagetii · P. haydenii · P. hogardii · P. irregulare · P. jaegeri · P. kochii · P. leopoldi · P. longifolium · P. pinnatifidum · P. propinquum · P. ptilum · P. rajmahalense · P. reckum · P. rectangulare · P. rectrum · P. rigidum · P. sandbergeri · P. scalare (Freshwater Angelfish) · P. scalare scalare (Freshwater Angelfish) · P. scalaris · P. sp · P. spectabile · P. spinosum · P. subaequale · P. taxinum · P. thomasii · P. verranianum"
Whatever :roll: Is this only a Fool´s Day?
Change in habit, producing change of function, is the main cause of the production of change in living structure. F. Wood Jones (1953) Trends of life

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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by cichla » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:36 am

Dear Bojan, Dear all,
no, that is just a ''mistake''. The majority of the taxa mentioned are from the fossil (Triassic) plant genus Pterophyllum. In Pterophyllum (Cichlidae) there are only three valid taxa: P. scalare, P. altum and P. leopoldi.
Best wishes, IS

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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by Philippe Burnel » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:50 am

I was waiting for your answer Ingo. ;)
What about your revision of the genus ?

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Bojan Dolenc
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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by Bojan Dolenc » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:09 am

cichla wrote:Dear Bojan, Dear all,
no, that is just a ''mistake''. The majority of the taxa mentioned are from the fossil (Triassic) plant genus Pterophyllum. In Pterophyllum (Cichlidae) there are only three valid taxa: P. scalare, P. altum and P. leopoldi.
Best wishes, IS
Thank You, very interesting; I now even found, that this fossil plants (Pterophylum sp.) from classis Cycadopsida were also founfd in our country, Slovenija:
http://www.geologija-revija.si/dokument.aspx?id=702
:idea:
Change in habit, producing change of function, is the main cause of the production of change in living structure. F. Wood Jones (1953) Trends of life

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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by cichla » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:06 am

Dear Philippe, dear all,
Thank you for your interest. Well, it's not really a revision of the genus Pterophyllum, but an analysis of the bar-pattern and body shape. I hope to publish it during this year. As a result I can write, that there are specimens of P. altum which are in the variation of P. scalare in body shape and predorsal contour.
Concerning the number of species within Pterophyllum (Cichlidae), I have no doubt that sooner or later new species will be described by someone.
Greetings, IS

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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by oryzias » Sun May 03, 2009 3:48 pm

What I would really love to know, is the identity of the Rio Negro "scalare that is confused with altum that Bleher insists is the genetic source material for the Horste Linke Altums. I have never seen a photo of this fish that could be confused with the fish of the Orinoco drainage.
Phill.

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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by Ken Davis » Mon May 04, 2009 4:37 pm

The Rio Negro fish is listed as P. cf scalare "eimeki", also P leopoldi and P dumerllii are considered the same species. Ken
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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by a.d.wood » Tue May 05, 2009 2:52 am

Ken Davis wrote:..............also P leopoldi and P dumerllii are considered the same species. Ken
Now you see that is what I always thought but Kullander (2003) placed P. dumerilli as a junior synonym of P. scalare and I haven't seen this placement challenged anywhere?

Andrew

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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by oryzias » Tue May 05, 2009 4:48 am

This one is a cracker! confusing or what? http://www.angelfish.net/VBulletin/show ... hp?t=15969
But it does not cast any light on the confusion regarding the Rio Negro fish that Bleher claims is the ancester of the Linke Altums.
Phill.

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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by altums » Sun May 31, 2009 9:25 am

Please understand, I'm not a taxonomist, but I believe that there are at least 5 species. Of course there are the 3 identified species, but I think that the Peruvian altum will eventually be reclassified as other than scalare There is another one that Heiko showed me from one of his collecting trips that is almost solid yellow with black stripes. It is an extremely remote location and he has never had the chance to return. If Heiko monitors this forum he may be able to elucidate
Jim.

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Re: Pterophyllum- how many species?

Post by cichla » Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:29 pm

Dear all,
I am sure that one day someone will split the species P. scalare into several taxa. However, currently there are ''only'' three valid species. Viz. P. scalare, P. leopoldi, P. altum. (see literature below). This is in congruence with Kullander's view (see http://www2.nrm.se/ve/pisces/acara/pterophy.shtml ; Kullander (1986): Cichlid fishes of the Amazon River drainage of Peru).
To quote Darwin (1882: 175): „Every naturalist who has had the misfortune to undertake the description of a group of highly varying organism, ...he will end up by uniting all the forms which graduate into each other as a single species; ... has no right to give names to objects which he cannot define“
Jim, let us know, which diagnostic character states you use to define the five species?
Greetings, IS

Literature:
2002. On the first description of Pterophyllum scalare. Mitt. Mus. Nat.kd. Berlin, Zool. Reihe 78 (1): 177-182.
The study reports new data concerning the terra typica (lower Amazonas river of Obidos including the lower part of the Rio Tocantins near Cameta), the collector (Friedrich Wilhelm Sieber), and the authorship of the cichlid species Pterophyllum scalare first described as Zeus scalare (Schultze in Lichtenstein, 1823). The only type specimen (ZMB 2833) is described and designated as lectotype.
2003. Variation of body depth in Pterophyllum scalare (Schultze in Lichtenstein, 1823) (Teleostei: Labroidei: Cichlidae). Z. Fischk. 6(1-2): 73-85.

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