Altum or not?

Discussion about cichlids from South America

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Tommi
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Altum or not?

Post by Tommi » Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:43 am

My wife been looking for altums for some time and saw these in lfs. What you think, altums or overprized scalare?

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Paulo José Alves
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Paulo José Alves » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:43 am

Hi

Buy them! Altum for sure.
All The Best
Paulo José

dwarfpike
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by dwarfpike » Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:20 am

I'm not sure, the way that first bar narrowing would worry me. I think they might be those 'peruvian altum' scalares.
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Grummie2
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Grummie2 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:17 pm

Nice altums ! They're pretty hard to come by, I'd snap 'em up !
Graham

Paulo José Alves
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Paulo José Alves » Tue Mar 10, 2009 5:07 am

Hi Dwarfpike

No way these altum are the so called "peruvian", I know them well, and the peruvian are comon scalare that received that name just to fool some buyers, it´s impossible to confuse them, based on color and coloration, with real altum. These are pure altum, equal to those from the Orinoco and south were the real ones originate. 100 % sure.
All The Best
Paulo José

Tommi
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Tommi » Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:37 am

Ok guys, thank you for info. I quess we are going to get some of those then. I'll put better photos later.

dwarfpike
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by dwarfpike » Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:25 pm

Thanks Paulo ... their coloration I know wasn't the quite the same as the peruvians, but wasn't sure how young they were and when the peruvians get their color. I just haven't seen altums whose bars thin quite that much before. But I admit it's been a long time since I've seen true altums in person.
Chris Morris

Dean Hougen
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Dean Hougen » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:59 pm

Whether these are altums or not depends on where you live. If you are in the Oklahoma City area, these are not altums and you should leave them in the shop. Oh, and tell me what shop they are in. If you are not in the OKC area, they are the real altums and you should buy them.


Dean
Chair, American Cichlid Association (ACA)
President, Oklahoma Aquarium Association (OKAA)

ACA 2012 Convention in Indianapolis, IN
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Willem Heijns
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Willem Heijns » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:46 am

Very good analysis Dean! So what you're saying is that if I come to live into the Oklahoma City area with my "suspect" angels they will become altum and vice versa? :? :lol:
Slàinte mhath!

Uilleam

Tommi
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Tommi » Fri Mar 13, 2009 10:22 am

Yeah, Im sorry to tell you I live in europe, Finland to be more exact. I btw. enjoyed your lecture a year ago Willem. I was the one behind videocamera.

Dean Hougen
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Dean Hougen » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:56 pm

Willem Heijns wrote:Very good analysis Dean! So what you're saying is that if I come to live into the Oklahoma City area with my "suspect" angels they will become altum and vice versa? :? :lol:
Indeed! And if we host an ACA convention in a few years as we are considering, maybe you can come see this strange phenomenon in action.


Dean
Chair, American Cichlid Association (ACA)
President, Oklahoma Aquarium Association (OKAA)

ACA 2012 Convention in Indianapolis, IN
http://www.aca2012indy.com

dwarfpike
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by dwarfpike » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:15 pm

I'm not sure 'sooner altums' are the really true altums though ... :lol:
Chris Morris

Heiko Bleher
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Heiko Bleher » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:36 pm

Hi guys,

just back from another two field trips - xtreme rewarding with many new species discovered in Nagaland - I saw this thread and the old story of "P. altum" or not.

Well let me tell you, it really does not matter where you live, these are no P. altum Pellegrin, 1904, at all. They are very nice P. scalare young ones, and most probably from breeding stock from angelfishes from the Rio Negro (and not Colombia nor from the upper Orinoco).

Still they are nice, just do not pay the P. altum price...

And advice from one who collected them first...

always

Heiko
www.aquapress-bleher.com
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Grummie2
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Grummie2 » Sat Mar 14, 2009 6:16 pm

I must say I'm very surprised, these do not look like any scalare I've seen, wild or not. You're the man Heiko, but what features on these fish make them not altums?
Graham

Tommi
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Tommi » Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:28 am

Expencive as h.... we bought seven of those. Tiny guys are growing up some before putting them to big maintank.

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cichla
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by cichla » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:05 pm

Dear all,
it is not easy to determine a species on a photos. But for me these are P. altum.
Just to mention some characters: Bar 9 is separated from bar 7 (in P. scalare from Rio Negro the gap is not so wide and clear), bar 8 visible (in P. scalare it is reduced and only visible in aggressive mood), the anterior and posterior edges of the prominent bars on body sides are clearly defined (indicate smaller scales). Following Kullander P. altum has 46-48 scales in a lateral row and P. scalare 30-39 (however, to be sure it is necessary to count the scales).
Best wishes, IS

Dean Hougen
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Dean Hougen » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:42 pm

Yeah, these are altums. I was just joking because I am looking for some locally, so I was joking that you should leave them in the store so that I could buy them. Sorry if the joke caused any confusion.


Dean
Chair, American Cichlid Association (ACA)
President, Oklahoma Aquarium Association (OKAA)

ACA 2012 Convention in Indianapolis, IN
http://www.aca2012indy.com

Con-Man-Dan
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Con-Man-Dan » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:33 am

They look just like the altums I used to have (if they really WERE altums lol). If mine were not true altum, then it was the source in SA who pulled the wool over our eyes and not the LFS.


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Ken Davis
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by Ken Davis » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:44 pm

I don't know why Heiko said they were not, they diffenantly are altums. Ken
An empty tank is a terrible thing to waste!

josh_shilling
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Re: Altum or not?

Post by josh_shilling » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:58 pm

Ken: Yeah if those arent altums I've never seen a real one.

Dean: That Oklahoma Altum bit was priceless. The ones from Scott cleaned up pretty good. Chris at SA says he can get them, but I think he means "any barred angelfish".
Interested in SA/CA Cichlids- Eartheaters, Pikes, Guapotes
My local aquarium club, with blogs - http://www.okcaa.org/phpBB2/index.php

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