Guianacara

Discussion about cichlids from South America

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Dutch Dude
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Guianacara

Post by Dutch Dude » Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:36 am

Hi to all of you,

I'm no new member to this forum but I only posted a few times before. Because this site contains a lot of specialists and knowledgeable people I like to ask which specie of Guianacara you think this is. They are sold to me as sp. Rio Caroni but I'm not convinced of that. In the middle you can see the large head hump with the dominant male. Unfortunately the colors of the picture aren't great but from a distance the hump looks orange. When you see up close it has a yellow color with small red dots like sp. red cheek. Is this indeed sp. Rio Caroni or possibly a different specie? Thanks for the input.

Ruurd

Image

gage
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Re: Guianacara

Post by gage » Sat Nov 17, 2007 12:18 am

hey dutch dude, i see your here from cichlid forum, nice to see ya, as far as the identification, i have no idea, but i think these guys here can help u, lots of knowledgeable people here :)

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Florent
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Re: Guianacara

Post by Florent » Sat Nov 17, 2007 3:31 am

G. sp Rio Caroni and G. sp red Cheek seem to be the same species recently described under Guianacara stergiosi

http://www.dcg-online.de/download/Neue_ ... uyunii.pdf

Dutch Dude
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Re: Guianacara

Post by Dutch Dude » Sun Nov 18, 2007 4:27 am

Hey Gage,....yeeeh I´m quit some time on this board but not as active as on CF. The real experts are over here so best bet my question will be answered on this board. Thanks for reading and your input.

Florent,....thanks for the link to the article!!! Lots of useful info and luckily I can reed German :wink:

If the lateral blotch is the main point of identification I can go with you and mark them as Stergiosi. The mark is indeed for most of the part underneath the lateral line an just reaches it. When I look at the coloration I see some difference. The Stergiosi do look more pink as base color while mine are yellow. Except for that the stergiosoi have some different marks on their head and don´t have the large hump and stronger yellow to orange coloration on it. The head of my fish also tend to have a darker coloration and seem to be more blunt. I have heard of specie `Copperhead` but I just can´t find any description or pic to check if they match my fish. I know Richard (Bantamweight) has had some in the past so hopefully he will join this discussion.

Thanks a lot for the input Florent and the link to this great article! I added a pic of a full tank shot and this one does display the colors of the fish better.

Image

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bantamweight1911
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Re: Guianacara

Post by bantamweight1911 » Sun Nov 18, 2007 3:41 pm

Hi,

I do not think they are 'Copperhead'

This is further evidence to suppor my opinion that the whole Guianacara group is a little bit of a mess.

It would be possible to put forward the argument that all Guianacara are the same species, with many sub-species.

The persons who have studied this group have divided them into 6 species. This makes little sense to me. I have kept Guianacara aff Geayi Orange Cheek, and Guianacara Geayi. There are more differences between these 2 sub species than there are between many of the difference species.

I currently have a breeding group of Sphenozona, and I can see little or no difference betwene these and Owroewefi. The copper head, from memory were aff Owroewefi. Again, I see far more difference between Copper head and Owroewefi, than I do between Owroewefi and Sphenozona.

So what I am saying, is I am the wrong person to ask to identify these fish. I can say I suspect they are Stergiosi, in terms of described species. They certainly do look like Rio Caroni (oooops I mean Stergiosi) to me.

Here is a pic of my Sphenozona:
You will notice that my male has somewhat an orange colouration to his head. It is far less than the copperhead that I had,,, I am looking for a pic of them.
Image
Richard


My Cichlid website : http://www.richardlongley.co.uk/

Dutch Dude
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Re: Guianacara

Post by Dutch Dude » Mon Nov 19, 2007 6:57 am

Hey Richard,

Thanks for the response and the pic of your Sphenozona! There is really a lack on info about the Guianacara and I agree that the Genus is a bit of a mess. Differences of several "species" are small and for now the identification by lateral blotch seem to be the most reliable. So for now the best bet is the G. Stergiosi based on the article added by Florent and the fact that they are sold as Rio Caroni. Still there are some differences in coloration and of course the larger hump but theoretically this could be different and depending on the river or aria of origin. Richard, your fish do look very nice and indeed have a small coloration on the face. Probably this is normal but not visible in most pics on the internet. Interesting you notice no coloration difference to your Owroewefi and Sphenozona.

I really am interested in a pic of the Copperhead you had in the past! I just can't find any pic of them on the internet so yours would be the first.

Richard,….your breeding the fish and may I ask what your water parameters are? (PH, KH, GH, temp and conductivity)

Thanks fore the inputs!

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bantamweight1911
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Re: Guianacara

Post by bantamweight1911 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 7:23 am

HI,

I have bred all my Guianacara at pH 6-6.5 GH 3-5 KH 1-3 temp 26-28

I have to say, I have found them all easy to breed, except the Copperhead, but I only had 1 piar of those. M<y experience is Guianacara do best in groups, much like Geos really.
Richard


My Cichlid website : http://www.richardlongley.co.uk/

Dutch Dude
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Re: Guianacara

Post by Dutch Dude » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:05 am

Thanks Richard for the info abouth your water parameters. I keep mine at 26C, PH=7 and GH=6. I have to soften up the water a bit more and add more RO water during water change.

I heard some aggression issues from Guianacara when they are in pairs and this would not be the case in small groups. I bought 4 some months ago and recently added 2 more so I maintain them in a small group of 6 in a 90 gallon (360 liter) 48 inch (120 cm) tank. They are realy lovely fish and have such a amusing social behaviour! Great to watch!

Thanks for the info guys and Richard,....I would realy appreciate a pic of the Copperhead.

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bantamweight1911
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Re: Guianacara

Post by bantamweight1911 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:17 pm

Hi Ruurd.

Unfortunately the only pic I have is of the female, and her head does not look very 'Copper'

Just shows how unreliable photos can be. She had a far more 'copper' head than the male Sphenozona in the picture above, yet on the photo, it didnt come out. The Copperhead photo was taken with a Camera of less quality, and that is maybe part of the reason.

What you can see however is the colouration along the top of the caudal fin and the attractive colouration of the paired fins

Image
Richard


My Cichlid website : http://www.richardlongley.co.uk/

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bantamweight1911
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Re: Guianacara

Post by bantamweight1911 » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:22 pm

While I am on my PC, here is a picture of some of the group of Guianacara cf Geayi 'Orange Cheek'

From memory, I 'penciled' in the copperhead as aff. Owroewefi , as I found a similar species in Band 3.

Image
Richard


My Cichlid website : http://www.richardlongley.co.uk/

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Sébastien Bochenko
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Re: Guianacara

Post by Sébastien Bochenko » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:56 pm

Great species ! Thanx

Dutch Dude
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Re: Guianacara

Post by Dutch Dude » Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:35 pm

Thanks again Richard and I realy like your fish! Especially the Copperhead and they do have some great colorations of the paired and the caudal fins!!! The male must have been even stronger colored and realy a pity you don't have pics of him! Well you were right,...my fish aren't the copperhead and that's for sure!

Soooo,....there is only one specie left and that's G. Stergiosi!

Thanks guys for your help, great pics and nice discussion abouth this wonderful fish!

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