Gymnogeophagus/Australoheros companions in HARD water?

Discussion about cichlids from South America

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CactusVinnie
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:50 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Gymnogeophagus/Australoheros companions in HARD water?

Post by CactusVinnie » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:09 pm

I am planning to enter the world of the cold hardiest SA cichlids...
I kept the northernmost available American, H. carpintis (true cyanoguttatus are impossible to find): great fish, quite hardy (1,5 cm fry ate chopped tubifex at 11*C in September!), perfectly suitable to my hard water but... KILLERS! Also quite large and strong so their fights weren't just play... and also very agressive towards their own females- my best pair ended when he killed her :( , and I decided to give up that species.

Probably Gymnos and VERY probably Australoheros would show their share of cichlid ferocity, but I decided to try them, in bigger setups and learning from mistakes... and I thought that some companions (with similar hardiness) in my ponds ( Heissner ponds, 1,5 x 1,5 x 0,5m) would be great, and, along non-sympatric species like Xipho. variatus (quite hardy too), some Callichthyids and Loricariids from the same areas would be even better! These could be cold hardy, interesting species to keep for themselves, after all.

I just started with a few Gymno. meridionalis from Glaser. Catalog number 1255, item code 679801. The only Gymno on their list.
Can anyone tell me what breeder supplies that particulary item for them? I would like to know the exact provenance for these fish.

Main questions is about water chemistry.

1- I understand that both genera, Gymnogeophagus and Australoheros, are quite tolerant of hard water despite their origin in non-limestone areas. Even breeding them is not impaired by hardness. I am curious if my parameters are still in their chemical limits: 20GH, 15KH, pH=7. Liquid rock, and I wonder if that's not the reason for my Cheirodon are getting older and I don't get any fry... Macropodus, Galaxy Danio, Cory paleatus and aeneus are ok in my water though.

2- Probably these cichlids will be ok in that limestone extract... how about potential companions like the species in Bas Pels "veranda" list below? Would they be fine and able to breed in these parameters? Old paleatus and aeneus mixes are able, but more recent wildcaughts and low F's probably didn't have the time to develop compensating mechanisms for harder water...

Corydoras paleatus Arroyo Aquas Blancas
Corydoras paleatus lago Durant
Rhamdia
Ancistrus arroyo Tala
Ancistrus arroyo Aquas Blanquas
Hisonotus sp arroyo Aquas Blancas
Hisonotus sp Arroyo Tropa Vieja
Hisonotus sp Arroyo Tala
Rhineloricaria sp Arroyo Tala
Rhineloricaria sp Arroyo Aquas Blancas
Rhineloricaria sp Charaguata
Microglanus Arroyo Aquas Blancas
Microglanus Arroyo Tropa Vieja

@Bas Pels, what are your water parameteres? Are your above listed fish breeding?

Thanks!
Fabian in Bucharest, Romania

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EC
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Location: milan, italy

Re: Gymnogeophagus/Australoheros companions in HARD water?

Post by EC » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:00 am

CactusVinnie wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:09 pm
I just started with a few Gymno. meridionalis from Glaser.
Hi,
I've seen some recently and I think this is G. terrapurpura.

Ciao Enrico

CactusVinnie
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:50 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Gymnogeophagus/Australoheros companions in HARD water?

Post by CactusVinnie » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:13 am

Thank you, Enrico!

It's from a 2011 catalogue, but probably it's the same: Gymno. "sp. Rosario II"/"sp. Arco Iris". So, these names are given to the same fish.

http://www.aquariumglaser.de/en/fish-ar ... alis_en-2/

There is a description of an arcoiris sp. nov.:

http://www.ciclidos-mexico.com/articulo ... urugay.pdf

but it seems it's older and not accepted, as it is mentioned in the second description:

"here are two additional names referred to the Gymnogeophagus rhabdotus species group, G. arcoiris and G. artiguensis , described as new species from Uruguay in a manuscript first distributed as a pdf file sometime after 2004 and before 2006. Both names, however, are unpublished and unavailable because they do not satisfy the criteria from Articles 8.1.3; 8.4; 8.5 and 78.2.4 of the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature. It is important to note that the reference to these names herein does not render them available (ICZN Article 11.5.2)."


Also, the description of terrapurpura:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script= ... en&tlng=en

So, final name is terrapurpura or they are different species by now?? I think I will have to check these features, they sound relevant and letting not much room for confusion:

"Diagnosis
Gymnogeophagus arcoiris presenta entre 24 y 25 escamas en la serie longitudinal , por lo tanto esta especie
se encuentra relacionada con G. rhabdotus, G. meridionalis, G. setequedas, y G. che. Gymnogeophagus
arcoiris se distingue de las restantes especies del género por la siguiente combinación de caracteres:
pequeñas manchas alargadas en aletas dorsal, anal y caudal, versus manchas redondas o líneas, o sin
manchas
en las restantes especies del grupo".

"Elongated spots vs. round spots and lines/stripes". My fish are quite emaciated and I am a total beginner in these fish and not having a trained eye, but that difference should be easy to see. Glaser Aquarium pictures seems to fit these spots/stripes details.
Fabian in Bucharest, Romania

CactusVinnie
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:50 am
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: Gymnogeophagus/Australoheros companions in HARD water?

Post by CactusVinnie » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:50 am

I searched a few videos on YT. Please let me know if these names are correct for the fish pictured.

I noticed spots on gymnogenys and rhabdotus- is that correct?

1. "Meridionalis"- one individual (the male) has stripes and elongated spots on the dorsal, while the female has only some elongated spots. Terrapurpura, in fact??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRbCDblW4PQ

2. "Meridionalis"- quite the same as above. Terrapurpura?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OpziY3QglQ

3. "Meridionalis"- I don't know what these are, but clearly different and having spots only:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQLKrG3kIbk

4. "Meridionalis"- well, I would say there are mostly stripes on the dorsal. True meridionalis here?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zjvSn7fCk8

5. "Meridionalis"- mostly stripes. True meridionalis?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0Lc4wQ5lTE
Fabian in Bucharest, Romania

Bas Pels
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:17 am
Location: Nijmegen - the Netherlands

Re: Gymnogeophagus/Australoheros companions in HARD water?

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:38 am

Somehow I missed this post.

The tapwater here has a conductivity of 300 microsiemens, DH = 8. In Uruguay most waters have a condutivity of around 200 micro's

However, I use rainwater most often - for practical reasons, not because I need to. Therefore I am completely unable to state anything about their hardiness toward diluted limestone to swim in.

With regard towards Herichthys carvpinte, I understand that the recent found variety, vonutu or so, is very ,very agressive. But there are many other varieties, which are far less agressive. These come from hard water and would, most likely, have far less problems with it then others

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