How do you guys do it? Raise Kh while keeping Ph at neutral?

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easywolf31
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How do you guys do it? Raise Kh while keeping Ph at neutral?

Post by easywolf31 » Wed May 17, 2017 6:24 pm

Hey all, I came by here in case you guys might have some answers to this problem. I'm keeping Red Jewel cichlids and Green Texas and planning on getting a Green Terror as well. How do you guys liwer the Ph while highering the Kh? Say you want to keep the Ph between 6.5-6.9 and the KH around 5. How can you lower the Ph without lowering the Kh. My washroom tap water comes out with a ph of 8.2 and Kh of 2.

I added some bogwood, just added more peat, almond leaves and ph has dropped to a steady 7.1-7.3 but kh down to 2. Hmmm.
145G G. Mobas, J. Marlieris, J. Marksmithis, Leleupis
140G Blue Dolphins, Kigomas, Y. Labs, J. Dickfieldis, Olivaceous, Daffodil
125G P. Bleekeris, Red & Green Texas
75G Green Terrors
60G Growouts
60G Brichardis
55G Apistos
55G Rams
45G Fry

Bas Pels
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Re: How do you guys do it? Raise Kh while keeping Ph at neutral?

Post by Bas Pels » Thu May 18, 2017 2:20 am

low pH with high KH is simply not possible

KH measures the amount of carbonate (CO3--) and bicarbonate (HCO3-) (in German, carbonate is written with a K, hence KH). These compounds are in equilibrium with CO2 depending on the pH. Lastly, the CO2 is a gas, which does dissolve rather good, but it will disappear if the concentration is too high

In a high pH tank, you will see CO2 from the air enters the water, and is turned into HCO3-. If the pH is really high, above pH = 8, the HCO3 will be turned into CO3 in significant amounts. This latter step mainly takes HCO3 out of the system, resulting in more dissolving CO2

in a low pH tank, the reverse is the case, HCO3 is turned into CO2.

Your tapwater is extremely low in KH, which makes it easy to lower the pH to the desired level. However, at pH = 6.5, the KH can reach about 4, not more. That is, the KH of your tapwater is below equilibrium

I already wrote, CO2 is in the air, and raising the KH to equilibrium is easy: just let air get into the water, and the CO2 in the air will dissolve. This is a process which can happen in your tank - if you let the waterflow go along the surface.

do measure the KH for a change before waterchanging. Assuming you change water every week - the water should be in equilibrium

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easywolf31
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Re: How do you guys do it? Raise Kh while keeping Ph at neutral?

Post by easywolf31 » Tue May 30, 2017 1:19 pm

Hi there, everytime I measure the KH it's around 3-3.5.

So I gave up and bought Acid buffer and Alkaline buffer. I don't use RO but would like to lower my steady pH in my 75 gallon Red Jewel tank (w/1-2 plants) from 7.3-7.7 to 6.8-6.9 and higher my Kh from 3 to 5. Can someone tell me a way to calculate a dosage here? I am also using peat and driftwood but it just tickles the pH. Thanks and hopefully this won't add much to the needed TDS amount of 20-50/ppm.

As for the Red Texas and (Mix Green Texas) I've read they come from a very Alkaline & hard water area of the lower Rio Grande river. So I will not be bothering with the pH but would like to really higher the Kh from 3 to 8-10 and Gh from 5 to about 10. Total TDS here is about 600ppm, nearing the Tanganyika setups I have!

And lastly, for the Green Terror I have, I read from very reliable River Geology books that the Peruvian & Ecuadorian rivers they come from averaged for 5 years with a pH of 7.5-8.5 but with a TDS of 100-200? How is that possible? I won't be messing with the pH here. It's weird that the American Cichlid Salt I bought says the amount needed is double that of the Central American dosage, but from what I've read it should be the opposite, I don't understand that either.
145G G. Mobas, J. Marlieris, J. Marksmithis, Leleupis
140G Blue Dolphins, Kigomas, Y. Labs, J. Dickfieldis, Olivaceous, Daffodil
125G P. Bleekeris, Red & Green Texas
75G Green Terrors
60G Growouts
60G Brichardis
55G Apistos
55G Rams
45G Fry

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Darrell Ullisch
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Re: How do you guys do it? Raise Kh while keeping Ph at neutral?

Post by Darrell Ullisch » Tue May 30, 2017 3:49 pm

The sole purpose of "Cichlid salts" is to separate your money from you. Jewels are found in water from soft acid to brackish in the wild. They will adapt to whatever you have.
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

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easywolf31
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Re: How do you guys do it? Raise Kh while keeping Ph at neutral?

Post by easywolf31 » Tue May 30, 2017 8:11 pm

Yup, I realize that, however I will buy it once or twice a year to add 0.0007 of strombite. Seriously though, I am getting a tds meter and maybe a Magnesium/Calcium test kit for fun, curious to see what my ratios are for those 2 main ones. Curious to see what is going on in the Tanganyikan, Riverine, Malawi, North & South American aquariums I have.

If I have like 300ppm I would buy the Cichlid salt once a while and add epsom or other at times..

I think I got some weird results with the American Cichlid salt I got and tried yesterday in the Texas tank. It seems like Kh & Gh dropped a lot. Perhaps that's why it says to double the dose for some reason for South Americans? Hmmm
145G G. Mobas, J. Marlieris, J. Marksmithis, Leleupis
140G Blue Dolphins, Kigomas, Y. Labs, J. Dickfieldis, Olivaceous, Daffodil
125G P. Bleekeris, Red & Green Texas
75G Green Terrors
60G Growouts
60G Brichardis
55G Apistos
55G Rams
45G Fry

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