Ornatum or Gephyrum

Discussion about cichlids from South America

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Oldrich Rican
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Re: Ornatum or Gephyrum

Post by Oldrich Rican » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:48 pm

I have collected the following specimens (see pictures) in the Rio Mira and Rio Mataje (both form partly the border between Ecuador and Colombia). These are ornatum and they are in my oppinion the same as the one by Willem Heijns in the title photo of ornatus in the CRC catalog.

I think that all your pictures shown in this topic are more likely gephyrum.
I have actually collected gephyrum in 2009 at the type locality in Rio Dagua but then I got robbed (Colombia :-) and lost the samples, pictures etc.
We have recently tried to compare the biogeography and species diversity of Andinoacara and Mesoheros, but we did not have any DNA samples from gephyrus.

http://www.senckenberg.de/files/content ... 33-350.pdf

If you guys would be willing to get me DNA samples from your gephyrums I could do DNA analyses and tell you where they end up. These days its even much more precise with the Next Gen sequencing. If we can get samples it would also nicely complete our story in the above publication.

Thanks
Olda
Attachments
Rio Mira
Rio Mira
Rio Mataje
Rio Mataje

Norcal_Cichlid
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Re: Ornatum or Gephyrum

Post by Norcal_Cichlid » Sun Dec 27, 2015 10:44 am

I have a group of 7 ornatum/gephyrum from Rio Choco. Not sure which one they are after reading all this new info.
Current stock-2 F1 Breeding pairs of Chuco Micropthalmus, F1 Theraps Lentiginosum (2 breeding pairs), Theraps Coeruleus (1 breeding pair), 7 5-8" F0 Ornatum "Rio Choco", 2 Beani "White" and about 400 Micropthalmus fry!

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smitty
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Location: Yeadon, Pennsylvania USA

Re: Ornatum or Gephyrum

Post by smitty » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:01 pm

It would be great to get some of the question marks removed
150gal- Dovi's; 3 AC 110 P.Filters; 2 AC 110 P.Heads; Eheim 2217,2260
180gal- Managuense; 3 AC 110 P.Filters; 2 AC 110 P.Heads; Eheim 2217,2260; FX5
210gal- Argta,Bifsct,Fnstrtus,Maculcda,Regani,Syns,Zntus; 4 AC P.Filters; 2 AC P.Hds; Eheim 2250,2262; FX5

blackghost
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Location: Cumbria, UK

Re: Ornatum or Gephyrum

Post by blackghost » Mon Dec 28, 2015 3:35 pm

The ornatum in the catalogue picture seems to have a square or very slightly indented caudal fin, as do the pictures on the first page of this thread, while the catalogue's gephyrum picture is decidedly rounded, as are Oldrich Rican's gephyrum pictures on this page. Seems too easy, anything in this??
Mark Wright

Mark Smith
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Re: Ornatum or Gephyrum

Post by Mark Smith » Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:19 pm

I just received a copy of the book, Guia De Peces Para Aguas Continentales, by 9 different authors, originally published in 2015, and it has a write up and color photo of an adult M. ornatus on page 333. The spangling on the body almost appears to be arranged in a more horizontal row-like fashion, particularly in sub-adult specimens. Lots of red diffused over most of the body and unpaired fins, and light iridescent spotting along the head is smaller in size than in M. gephyrum. Also, the body seems a little more elongated, especially with a more elongated caudal peduncle and caudal fin. Clearly distinct from the M. gephyrum floating around in the hobby, that are being incorrectly labelled as M. ornatus.

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Patricio Miguel
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Location: Carcavelos - Portugal

Re: Ornatum or Gephyrum

Post by Patricio Miguel » Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:14 pm

Bought two a year ago as ornatum, but as soon as I get them I had doubts reguarding if they were true ornatum or gephyrum.
After speaking with Mr. Mark Smith I came to the conclusion that in fact I bought gephyrum. I was not disillusioned and I am very much satisfied of having them.
Here's some pics of them
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4901.jpg
5138.jpg
5138.jpg (36.35 KiB) Viewed 2387 times
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Patrício Miguel[/color]

fevelasco
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Location: Southlake, TX

Re: Ornatum or Gephyrum

Post by fevelasco » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:52 pm

Oldrich Rican wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:48 pm
If you guys would be willing to get me DNA samples from your gephyrums I could do DNA analyses and tell you where they end up. These days its even much more precise with the Next Gen sequencing. If we can get samples it would also nicely complete our story in the above publication.

Thanks
Olda
Dr. Říčan, I would be willing to send you my female Mesoheros gephyrus for DNA analysis. Would you please provide instructions for properly sending you the samples you need? Thanks.
Mesoheros gephyrus pair.png

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