Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

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fishop
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Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by fishop » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:14 am

hi there,

so i recently picked up a bunch of tiny crenicichla.. they're about 1"-1.5" long.. were on the list as "Crenicichla regani".. shipped from a Brazil supplier.. i'm almost 100% sure they're not regani.. too much red in the dorsal fins.. but what are they? notophthalmus? or another species?

hoping the experts here can help i.d. these.. thx..

Image
Image
Image

and yes they're pretty skinny.. but starting to slowly gain some weight..

Miguel Monteiro
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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by Miguel Monteiro » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:14 am

You're right, they're notophthalmus

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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by a.d.wood » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:39 pm

Miguel Monteiro wrote:You're right, they're notophthalmus
Sorry, not C. notophthalmus. Caudal spot and lack of extensions on the front of the dorsal make them a very colourful population of C. regani

Andrew

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Florent
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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by Florent » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:16 am

I guess C. nothophthalmus as they come from Brazil but could also be C. sp. aff. notophthalmus "Orinoco", the male is too young to see the extensions of the dorsal fin, but the red in the female dorsal is quite caracteristic.

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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by a.d.wood » Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:01 am

Florent wrote:I guess C. nothophthalmus as they come from Brazil but could also be C. sp. aff. notophthalmus "Orinoco", the male is too young to see the extensions of the dorsal fin, but the red in the female dorsal is quite caracteristic.
OK, but the clearly show a caudal spot and as far as I am aware one of the diagnostic features of C. notophthalmus is the absence of the caudal spot (acc. Romer, Dwarf Cichlid Atlas, volume 1).

Andrew

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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by Microman » Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:59 am

Yes I think Andrews correct here, Not C.notophthalmus...
A very striking population of C.regani
Mark...

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Florent
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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by Florent » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:20 am

Hello,

first , I wish you a merry Christmas

Then for the fish, I'am not sure that the absence of caudal spot is diagnostic for young fish.

Even if the are not closely realated all members of the saxatilis group have a ocellated caudal spot when young, as adult some species don't show it.

In CRC cichlid catalog, look at the picture for C. notophthalmus. Juan Miguel make pictures of fish from Rio Negro (Cachoieras Arara). Very small ones with ocellated caudal spot, red in the dorsal and caudal fin of females. As he also found C. regani at the same place it's very easy to make comparison between the two species.

Then look at Lee's adults pictures, the male have the caracteristic elongated dorsal fin rays, and the female have a lot of red in the dorsal ... and you can see a small spot on the caudal peduncul, not ocellated but present.


The best is to wait a little and have a close look to the dorsal fin of the male ...

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Florent
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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by Florent » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:34 am

To be sure I also read the original description :

A synopsis of the cichlid fishes of the genus Crenicichla". Annals and Magazine of Natural History
http://biostor.org/cache/pdf/f0/0f/49/f ... a95989.pdf

A dark band through eye to operculum ; a large black
ocellus on dorsal fin between the sixteenth and twentieth
spines ; a small dark spot on upper part of base of caudal ;
2 or 3 oblique bars near upper edge o£ caudal.

And I also have a look to the aqualog, you can see a male with elongate rays and caudal fin spot.

Miguel Monteiro
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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by Miguel Monteiro » Thu Dec 26, 2013 1:23 pm

The regani don't have red in the dorsal.

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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by Miguel Monteiro » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:24 pm

I kept both species. Two pictures of females.

regani
Image

notophthalmus
Image

fishop
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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by fishop » Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:24 am

so it seems to me that if i see the caudal spots fade and the males develop the extended rays on the dorsal fin as they get older, then i have notophthalmus? very nice pics of the females btw.. wow.. i think i can see the remnants of a caudal spot on your notophthalmus.. and another pike cichlid expert has told me that he thinks they are notophthalmus also.. due to male starting to develop spiky first dorsal rays.. i haven't raised dwarf pikes before so i can't see well the early characteristics developing, although i can see them in many other cichlids maybe before the average hobbyist.. always something new to learn in this hobby!

thanks to all for the help! i'll post some pix of them on this thread once they have gotten older, so u can see how they look..

zchallenger
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Re: Help ID Beautiful Little Dwarf Pikes

Post by zchallenger » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:29 pm

Definitely notopthalmus.

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