Thorichthys sp confirmation

Discussion about cichlids from Central America
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Ichy
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:09 am

Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Ichy » Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:07 am

Hello,
I recently bought some " Thorichthys aureus" I bought them from a sotre i trust a great deal , but I am on the fence as to if they are aureus or ellioti/maculipinnis. Here are some pictures , I'd like to hear what everyone thinks and why. This is not my first attempt at getting aureus . I also will be picking up 4 more from a different source tomorrow . So any tips on how to differentiate the two species would be great!
Thanks
Image


Image


Image






Image


even if these are not aureus i think they are pretty sharp compared to the last group of ellioti i had

Michael Kwist
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Location: Middelburg The Netherlands
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Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Michael Kwist » Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:41 am

I think that they are maculipinnis/ellioti than Aureus.. if i look to the name aureus it means ''gold'' i don't see much gold colors on your fish.
Also they don't look like the aureus i have seen ;)
Greetings Michael.

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Alex Odesit
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Location: Garden State,USA. Odessa Ukraine

Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Alex Odesit » Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:39 pm

I am second to Mike, think they are maculipinnis. Good quality ones, good luck with them
Alex

Meeki67
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Location: FRANCE

Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Meeki67 » Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:56 pm

I confirm that it is Elioti because aureus look like this :
Image
or depending of the feeling :
Image
And the parent of this fish :
Image

Rest of pictures at this place :
http://www.aquabase.org/member/album/pi ... p3?f=11179
http://picasaweb.google.fr/Meeki67/Aureus002#

Ichy
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Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Ichy » Sat Mar 13, 2010 10:38 pm

Thanks for your input.
The pictures must not show the gold very well , but these fish have LOADS of gold compared to the ellioti I had before . Mostly just above the pink on the belly.
I was also given 4 more fish tonight from another source. They too are thought to be aureums, but look nothing like the fish i posted pics of, the newer ones are spitting images of the ellioti i had before .
When I compare the 4 new ones to the ones i posted about there is a world of difference. I really do think I am leaning more towards aureums now more than before . Simply by comaprison of the two groups . The ones i posted have gold, they have red/pink from chin to the back edge of the anal fin . Plus the store got them in from DCT as T aureus .
I would like to hear more opinions though. Or even better the actual differences between how the two species were described.
Thanks
Tim

Roland
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Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Roland » Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:13 am

Hi Meeki67 I saw these next pic`s of Yours, beatyfull fish, and pic`s.

Tom Ingvaldsen
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Location: Norway

Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Tom Ingvaldsen » Sun Mar 14, 2010 7:22 am

Ichy wrote:Thanks for your input.
The pictures must not show the gold very well , but these fish have LOADS of gold compared to the ellioti I had before . Mostly just above the pink on the belly.
I was also given 4 more fish tonight from another source. They too are thought to be aureums, but look nothing like the fish i posted pics of, the newer ones are spitting images of the ellioti i had before .
When I compare the 4 new ones to the ones i posted about there is a world of difference. I really do think I am leaning more towards aureums now more than before . Simply by comaprison of the two groups . The ones i posted have gold, they have red/pink from chin to the back edge of the anal fin . Plus the store got them in from DCT as T aureus .
I would like to hear more opinions though. Or even better the actual differences between how the two species were described.
Thanks
Tim
Hi
If breeders could pass info about the orign of the fish, it would be that mutch easyer to determine their correct sp. since ellioti is found in the western edge of the thorichthys group`s distribution range while the aureus is found in the eastern end. At least if you could be passed info of what country it origns from, it would solve it all. You brobably knew this, but I thought it was worth a line in the thread.
I`ve seen ellioti been sold as aureus severall times here in norway. It seems that if the fish aint of the more common ellioti varietys, many exporters and grosists seems prone to label them as aureus. With the many ellioti varietys, it cuold bee a lot of aureus around :?
I`m not saying you dont have aureus though, and it would be useful if you could post some pics of the latest group you recived!?

Ichy
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:09 am

Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Ichy » Sun Mar 14, 2010 10:23 am

Hi TOM,
Actually I do have some information on the origin. Since I returned to the store and asked about were they got the I have been told 'Rio Bonito, Guatemala'. I am not familiar with any of the Thorichthys species ranges. These are by far the most aureus looking fish i have seen in my quest to get some aureus. I am very interested in learning more about the various Thorihthys species though . Thanks for the continued input. I will try to get smoe pictures of the newer fish up today, I really think they are ellioti/maculipinnis . They are however much less grown into their colors and they might nto show in pictures. They are starting to show some red in the belly and some blue spangles though. But by comparison to the ones in question they have none of the gold base coloration none of the gold spangles far less blue spangles and the red appears to be limited to the mid belly area thus far. They really do remind me of the last time i had ellioti
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3980&p=23796#p23796
Thanks
Tim

Ichy
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:09 am

Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Ichy » Mon Mar 15, 2010 12:53 pm

Here is a better picture


Image

from what i gather , these might not be lake Izabel, or the more popular location , but they do have loads of gold speckles and a gold tone to the body .
I do have another shot at some more , these one would be rio selema guatemala, but I have not seen pictures of the actual fish yet and will not consider oredering them unless i see the actual fish . I may jsut have to wait for ACA this sumer


Thank
Tim

Tom Ingvaldsen
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Location: Norway

Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Tom Ingvaldsen » Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:44 pm

Is this the same fish as the ones pictured in your first post?
If the fish comes from guatemala, it rules out the ellioti since the ellioti`s distribution range dont stretch that far.

By the way....here are some good thorichthys articles found on this site:
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=143
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=24
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=3
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=165
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=7
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=148
http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=414

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John Heaton
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Location: San Andres, Peten, Guatemala, Central America.

Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by John Heaton » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:30 pm

The Rio Bonito is a stream that feeds El Golfete. El Golfete is a shallow lake that forms part of the Rio Dulce.
It is located about half way between Lago Izabal and the Caribbean Sea.
Lago Izabal is the source for the Rio Dulce and the type locality for T, aureus.
T ellioti is a synonym of T maculipinnis which is endemic to Mexico.
Attachments
el golfete.JPG
el golfete.JPG (152.87 KiB) Viewed 4747 times

Ichy
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Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Ichy » Wed Mar 17, 2010 2:36 am

Yes the fish in the newest picture is the same female that is in the first few pictures. I may be looking into some Rio Selema T aureus as well. I would of course keep the tow locales in seperate tanks .
I really think that the aggression that i am seeing is actualy from the fact that it appears the larger female si preparing to spawn, so perhaps once I have thme set up in their own tank the aggresion will subside. I currently am keeping thme with my T pasiones group. I read somewhere that aureus were less aggressive than pasiones. In this case it appears to be untrue , however given that the females ovipositor is dropped I tihnk she may be causing more aggresiion form the male .
Thank you VERYmuch for the geographical INFO. That is a huge help ! I do really think these are aureus. It must just be the fact they are not form the type locale that they arent perfect matches to the pictures online. Plus they still ahve some growth to put on , perhaps in ayear or so they'll be spitting images of some of the other aureus pics.
Thanks
Tim

Ichy
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Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:09 am

Re: Thorichthys sp confirmation

Post by Ichy » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:12 am

Collection information I had previously has been corrected to be RIO SELIMA Guatemala...

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