Mexico 2007 and 2008

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Joe Middleton
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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by Joe Middleton » Sat Jul 14, 2007 12:50 pm

Juan Artigas wrote:In any case, we seem to be doomed...
I have a suggestion: let's outlaw exotic fishkeeping. Keeping exotic fish is perhaps one of the greatest pressures on native fish populations. I propose that from now on you can only keep exotic fishes if you are allied with an acredited institution (a school, a government, a political action committee, or nonprofit aquarium society), and have no monetary interest in their keeping. If you can not present these credentials or are not willing to pay for an annual permit, you will only be able to keep fishes found in the watershed* that you are currently occupying.

This rule would apply also to for-food fishfarms, as well.

*This is defined as fishes found to the non-marine watershed prior the existence of the organization known as the Peace Corps. For estuarine and marine fishes this is defined as species that occur naturally within a 100 km-radius of the ocean that you are closest to.
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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by Bas Pels » Sun Jul 15, 2007 2:37 am

Nice as the idea seems, it is also not nessecary.

All the fishes I have, would die in the first winter they encounter if released. Thus, if released, they will not destroy the local fishpopulations - that is, unless they carry a desease.

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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by michi tobler » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:58 pm

Hi all,

back from MX - again. This time we were sticking in the northeastern corner mainly to collect Poecilia. We got some other nice stuff though (including some Macrobrachium that I yet need to take a picture of and some neat Herichthys). For some fish pix see here: http://www.sulfide-life.info/mtobler/in ... Itemid=149

Hope you enjoy.

Cheers, m
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Rick Thibert
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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by Rick Thibert » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:02 pm

Hemichromis guttatus in Mexico????

BC

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Juan Artigas
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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by Juan Artigas » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:25 pm

Nice, there is a very rich fauna of shrimps and crayfish in the Panuco siver system. Apparently you were in the Soto la Marina?
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michi tobler
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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by michi tobler » Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:34 pm

Hi Juan,

yes, we were in the Soto Marina. We started in Matamoros, reached as far south as Tampico, went inland to CD Valles, north to Barretal and back to Matamoros. On one of the next trips, I really need to spent time in the Panuco drainage. I always eave it out or just hit a few sites... but it would deserve a lot more time.

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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by michi tobler » Sun Sep 23, 2007 5:36 pm

BIG_CICHLID wrote:Hemichromis guttatus in Mexico????

BC
Unforunately... intoduced in Cuatro Cienegas... there are thousands...

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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by Marco Arroyo » Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:00 am

Hey Michi, i didnt know you were here, you miss the party with the mariachis and some tacos, see you soon my friend

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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by michi tobler » Fri Sep 19, 2008 3:48 pm

Hi everybody,

we were in Mexico again past August and I thought I'd share some of the pictures with you: Mexico summer 2008.

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EC
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Re: Mexico 2007

Post by EC » Sat Sep 20, 2008 4:30 pm

michi tobler wrote:Hi everybody,
we were in Mexico again past August
Hi Michi. I was in Mexico in June and July (DF/HG/VE/TB/CM/YU/QR/CS/OA/GR/MO). Do you know the needlefish (16 inches) present in Rio Chacamax at Nututun? They catch poecilids in groups of 5 or 6. Thanks!

Ciao Enrico

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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by michi tobler » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:25 pm

Hi Enrico,

yes. We actually observed them in the Nututun at Palenque. I have the name in my field notes. I'll post it on Monday when I'm back in the office. They were really cool. We never saw more than three at the time... but they were simply fantastic.

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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by EC » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:01 am

michi tobler wrote:I'll post it on Monday when I'm back in the office.
Thank you very much. I think is Strongylura hubbsi but I'm not sure and I didn't take a photo.

Ciao Enrico

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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by michi tobler » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:07 am

Hi Enrico

Yes. That's what it is. I recall now. We caught some subadults. I'll try to post a picture later.

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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by michi tobler » Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:17 pm

Enrico, here some pix of the needles we caught. As you already mentioned, they're S. hubbsi.
IMG_1086.JPG
IMG_1278.JPG
IMG_1281.JPG
They are really cool fish. Especially, if you can see them underwater;o)

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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by EC » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:23 am

michi tobler wrote:Enrico, here some pix of the needles we caught. As you already mentioned, they're S. hubbsi.
They are really cool fish. Especially, if you can see them underwater;o)
Cheers, m
Thank you Michi! Adults show black spot on the caudal fin. I've follow for more than an hour a little Strongylura (notata?) in Bacalar and the prey are only urophthalmus fry. Salvini, synspila and meeki weren't attacked. I've not understood why.

Ciao Enrico

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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by Juan Artigas » Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:18 pm

EC wrote:I've follow for more than an hour a little Strongylura (notata?) in Bacalar and the prey are only urophthalmus fry. Salvini, synspila and meeki weren't attacked. I've not understood why
Strongylura notata that is what you find in Bacalar. 'C' urophthamus have way more numerous spawns that Paratheraps synspilus or 'C' salvini. That could probably have something to do with it.
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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by michi tobler » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:03 am

Hi all,
I am sorry to dig out this old post (since it's not directly related to cichlids, I'm just appending an old post). We had a good time in Mexico this year. Not much new on the cichlids front, but we did have some success in finding a long lost molly: P. thermalis (check here for some pictures: http://www.sulfide-life.info/mtobler/mexico-2012). We are currently looking at these fish in detail. Thought some of you CA nerds might be interested anyways.
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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by Rico Morgenstern » Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:48 am

Thanks for this interesting news Michi,
there is really no need to apologize. It's good to see that someone is interested in clarifying the ID of this 'old' species, especially in the light of the 'Poecilia mess' created in CLOFFCA.

Although the original description by Steindachner is very detailed and indicates already that this is a distinctive fish, nobody seems to have really cared about P. thermalis. What other fish were found at this place, and have you by change pics of P. mexicana from nearby localities?

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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by michi tobler » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:27 pm

Hi Rico,
thanks for your comments. The P. mexicana in non-sulfidic habitats look somewhat different (notice the smaller heads). Here is a typical male from the same drainage that I collected in a previous year:
p_mexicana07.jpg
p_mexicana07.jpg (28.27 KiB) Viewed 4313 times
I am not sure yet whether P. thermalis is going to remain a distinct taxon, or whether we'll have to synonymize it with Poecilia mexicana. In the past years, we have documented various sulfide spring (and cave) ecotypes of P. mexicana. These are morphologically very distinct, typically reproductively isolated (no to very little gene flow across ecotypes) but genetically not very divergent. We are currently sequencing several genes and are conducting a population genetic analysis based on microsatellites to test what the situation is here. I think we'll find low levels of gene flow between the sulfide spring and the normal river populations. But I am not sure whether we will find that the "P. thermalis" cluster within P. mexicana with minimal genetic divergence (as found for example in the Cueva del Azufre system) or whether "P. thermalis" represents a distinct lineage like P. sulphuraria. Hopefully, we'll know by the end of the year.
Cheers, m
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Re: Mexico 2007 and 2008

Post by Juan Artigas » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:34 pm

Michi thanks so much for sharing those great pictures. I had seen them before in your site. Those are the best pictures I had seen on Poecilia thermalis.
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