Herichthys ID?

Discussion about cichlids from Central America
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meksjoef
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Herichthys ID?

Post by meksjoef » Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:22 am

Hello,

i don't own these animals anymore, but now en then there is a disscusion between me and others over the name...
I bought these as pame (sp white labridens) f1. The person i got them from, bought them as such at Hobbyzoo Tillmann.
The patern differs to much from pame imo... Can anyone tell me what they are?

photo's are from Jan Fioole,
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Bas Pels
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Re: Herichthys ID?

Post by Bas Pels » Fri Jun 27, 2014 4:49 pm

As far as I know, I am that person. The fish I sold to Meksjoef were offspring from fish collected in the Rio Tamasopo

This river only has H tamasopoensis, steindachneri and the 'white labridens', which are now referred to as H pame

meksjoef
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Re: Herichthys ID?

Post by meksjoef » Fri Jun 27, 2014 5:12 pm

Indeed Bas, i bought them from u :)

i always thought, they have made a mistake with the name of the river. And that they are not collected in the Tamasopo, but in the Tampaon.

Pantostictus,
Localities: Axtla River (Mexico, native), Choy River (Mexico, native), Coy River (Mexico, native), El Salto River (Mexico, native), Jaumave (Mexico, native), La Cascada Abasolo (Mexico, undefined), Laguna de la Puerta (Mexico, undefined), Río Mante (Mexico, native), Rio Tigre (Mexico, native), Tambaque (Mexico, native), Tampaón River (Mexico, native).

Pame,
Type locality: Río Tamasopo, San Luis Potosí, México. Lat. 22.51666667, Long. -99.65, 393 masl.
Distribution: Endemic to the Rio Gallinas and its affluents in the valley of Rascon, San Luis Potosi and in the Panuco river drainage

Bas Pels
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Re: Herichthys ID?

Post by Bas Pels » Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:43 am

In that case, ask Thomas, who collected them

but now I understand your question

meksjoef
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Re: Herichthys ID, pame or pantostictus?

Post by meksjoef » Sun May 15, 2016 7:22 pm

I was talking to someone on Facebook and he was sure that it are pame. As far as i know the animals were collected by Thomas Tillmann, and sold as sp. white labridens.

I'm still not 100% since this quote of the pame profile on the website,
Diagnosis: Among other traits, Herichthys pame differs from Herichthys pantostictus in having the scaleless blotch behind the pectoral fins purple instead of red, and having no red markings in the dorsal and anal fins or red dots over the body, the body is more elongated.
Hoping Juan could tell me if it are pame or pantostictus... :)

Thnx in advance

Bas Pels
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Re: Herichthys ID, pame or pantostictus?

Post by Bas Pels » Mon May 16, 2016 3:23 am

meksjoef wrote:I was talking to someone on Facebook and he was sure that it are pame. As far as i know the animals were collected by Thomas Tillmann, and sold as sp. white labridens.
This is true.

He collected them, if my memory serves me right, just above the waterfalls in the Rio Tamasopo, and I seam to remember that this is the type location of the white labridens, now pame

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Juan Artigas
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Re: Herichthys ID, pame or pantostictus?

Post by Juan Artigas » Thu May 26, 2016 10:42 am

meksjoef wrote:Hoping Juan could tell me if it are pame or pantostictus... :)
They are very closely related species and the diagnosis offered in the description of Herichthys pame does not help in the identification. I will add here the diagnosis (mainly based on coloration) I wrote for the H. pame[/] profile in the Cichlid Room Companion, I hope it helps in the identification:

" Among other traits, Herichthys pame differs from Herichthys pantostictus in having the scaleless blotch behind the pectoral fins purple instead of red, and having no red markings in the dorsal and anal fins or red dots over the body, the body is more elongated. It differs form Herichthys labridens in having pale yellow instead of blue cheeks, a more elongated snout and no green markings on the dorsal fin. Breeding coloration is strikingly different as H. labridens shows intense yellow-black pattern instead of black-white in Herichthys pame "

I would not trust "somebody told me they collected them there" .. many times those registrations are in error
Juan Miguel Artigas
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The Cichlid Room Companion
http://www.cichlidae.info

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bennymoreno51
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Re: Herichthys ID?

Post by bennymoreno51 » Mon May 30, 2016 12:43 pm

How can tell is to at photos of the fish and match them up with that fish

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meksjoef
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Re: Herichthys ID, pame or pantostictus?

Post by meksjoef » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:06 pm

Juan Artigas wrote:
meksjoef wrote:Hoping Juan could tell me if it are pame or pantostictus... :)
They are very closely related species and the diagnosis offered in the description of Herichthys pame does not help in the identification. I will add here the diagnosis (mainly based on coloration) I wrote for the H. pame[/] profile in the Cichlid Room Companion, I hope it helps in the identification:

" Among other traits, Herichthys pame differs from Herichthys pantostictus in having the scaleless blotch behind the pectoral fins purple instead of red, and having no red markings in the dorsal and anal fins or red dots over the body, the body is more elongated. It differs form Herichthys labridens in having pale yellow instead of blue cheeks, a more elongated snout and no green markings on the dorsal fin. Breeding coloration is strikingly different as H. labridens shows intense yellow-black pattern instead of black-white in Herichthys pame "

I would not trust "somebody told me they collected them there" .. many times those registrations are in error


I see red spots with these specimen on photo 3. According to your description they are pantostictus...

Thank u for your feedback Juan :)

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