Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Discussion about cichlids from Central America
duanestuermer
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by duanestuermer » Sat May 18, 2013 8:01 am

Fabulous jog grummie, any updates?
I had an adult pair spawn about 10 yrs ago, male killed the female soon after spawning and ate the eggs, so I think the dithers are a great idea to keep them focused.

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Grummie2
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Grummie2 » Sat May 18, 2013 1:21 pm

Well, that batch of eggs didn't make it, they ate all but 6 and those fungused the day after I removed them. The good news is a second pair in a different tank have spawned on a rock near the circulation pump. This pair are on their own and get along great (so far) but they were the ones I'll put the dithers into. I'll keep the eggs with these to see if they can care for them but I'll remove the next spawn from the other pair soon after laying. I really want to get a good hatch qnt from these, its very frustrating getting a couple of fry, but I guess any success is better than none.
Graham

Mark Smith
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Mark Smith » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:54 am

Hi Nuchal Man

I understand that Panama is not issuing collecting permits lately? Do you know anything about that? It would explain why this species has not collected for many years.

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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Mark Smith » Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:04 am

Something else. I have seen round trip flights from LAX (the closest international airport to my home) to Panama City, Panama from as low as $335! I was quite amazed at such a cheap price. Makes going collecting all the more enticing. Now, if collecting permits could just be gotten.

ashleyco
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by ashleyco » Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:50 pm

had an adult pair spawn about 10 yrs ago, male killed the female soon after spawning and ate the eggs, so I think the dithers are a great idea to keep them focused.

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davidefc
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by davidefc » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:31 pm

I am currently keeping a pair, undivided, I usually divide when it comes to these large, rare aggressive cichlids, but they seem so good together, been this way for 3 months roughly now. The female does has a few places the male cannot physically get to her.

Image
Image

I was doing water changes every 3 days, the female seemed to be in breeding dress, but these frequent water changes seem to stress the male, so I have changed it to weekly, where he seems much happier, but no breeding dress now.

I have spoken to Grummie regarding breeding, he finds then breed in more aged water. Does anyone with any experience with this fish have any tips on triggering a spawn.

Regards
Dave

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Grummie2
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Grummie2 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:45 am

Nice looking pair Dave! Looks like they've been lip locking, females can give it out too! Mine are off the boil again now, they usually start up again after xmas. I'm going to lower TDS and pH for future spawns to see if it helps in fertilisation....tried all sort of chems but if the water is not helping viability (as in discus?) it'll be worth lowering the conditions. When I get the chance I'll try to find the water specs for their natural habitat (if available), obviously my water ain't cuttin' it!!
Graham

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Grummie2
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Grummie2 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 12:09 pm

Well, several unsuccessful spawns later and I finally have about 20 wrigglers, its early days to say if they'll be good, but the signs are promising. I'm fairly confident I can get a better hatch rate next time....I think I'm now going in the right direction :roll: .
Graham

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Piotr Koba
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Piotr Koba » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:19 am

Hi Grummie,

Fingers crossed! This is such a beautiful fish. Besides, could you share with us what were the main problems you encountered, like fungus?
Cheers
Piotr

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Grummie2
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Grummie2 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:22 am

Hi Piotr.
There is for me it seems a few challenges with this fish. I have never had a high hatch rate, the most fry I've ever raised was 6. Hatching time does seem longer than most cichlids, eggs are almost ancistrus sized. I breed lots of other species, so I am puzzled why this one is so much different; either its me, the water or just these fish have low fertility. I used every anti-fungal medication on the eggs I could think of with no result. I brought the pH and Tds down thinking it may be the way to go.....still no success. So this time I've started going in the other direction plus increasing the temperature to speed up hatching time.
Graham

Mark Smith
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Mark Smith » Wed Dec 24, 2014 1:26 pm

Like many people, some fish just do not reproduce well. Imprinting was interrupted? Coupled with that, this species has been inbred for quite sometime in captivity, and that may also be contributing to a low hatch rate

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Piotr Koba
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Piotr Koba » Thu Dec 25, 2014 10:21 am

Thanks Graham,

I hope you will have more succes in the upcoming year with this species. Lovely fishes that deserve more attention from Centrals fans.

Maybe your problem with these fishes comes from the fact that you just want them to breed so much; try to "forget" about them and then they may well surprise you :D In any way - good luck!
Cheers
Piotr

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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Mark Smith » Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:05 am

Also, it is a hardwater, relatively high alkaline requiring species. I remember one fellow, Bill Cain, who spawned his wild caught juveniles (caught around 20 years ago?) after they had grown to adulthood, and spawns were as per normal for this species, at least a couple hundred

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Grummie2
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Grummie2 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:03 pm

Hi Mark,

yes, funnily enough I just read on the CRC the report by Bill Cain, don't know how I've not seen it before :roll: . I'm certainly much more confident of a 'normal' spawning in the future. The pair is very well bonded, little to no aggression between them (the other 2 pairs I have don't get along as well), the male is now around 12" and the female close to 8", I would estimate 300+ eggs. Piotr, I leave the other 2 pairs to 'surprise' me hopefully, I'm gradually changing their water parameters....so I wait !
Graham

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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Mark Smith » Thu Dec 25, 2014 1:23 pm

Graham. how old would you approximate your spawning pair to be?

Lee Nuttall
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Lee Nuttall » Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:24 pm

If I remember correctly Graham, did these come in through Ross from a Jeff Rapps import around 2007/2008?

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Grummie2
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Grummie2 » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:03 pm

Hi Mark, these are just over 5 years old, they're the grown up fry shown in the pics in another thread on here. Hi Lee, this species came to me when Ian Jordan owned Oddball Express, they were from Conkel originally, can't remember what year.
Looks like these fry will be free swimming in about 10 hrs, brine shrimp ready...
Graham

Mark Smith
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Mark Smith » Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:38 am

May I ask how your fry are coming along? How many did you get to survive?

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Grummie2
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Grummie2 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:01 pm

Hi Mark. There's 18 survivors out of about 23 that hatched, they're about 3/4" now, growing really fast!
Sorry the pics not that good.

Image

Hoping for a better success next time.....they're almost ready to spawn again now.....
Graham

Norcal_Cichlid
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Re: Tomocichla Asfraci ?

Post by Norcal_Cichlid » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:54 am

Send these fry to the US! :D
Current stock-2 F1 Breeding pairs of Chuco Micropthalmus, F1 Theraps Lentiginosum (2 breeding pairs), Theraps Coeruleus (1 breeding pair), 7 5-8" F0 Ornatum "Rio Choco", 2 Beani "White" and about 400 Micropthalmus fry!

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