Thorichthys in groups

Discussion about cichlids from Central America
aaron
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Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:44 pm

Hello,

I read a few articles on CRC and Rusty Wessel and another (blanking on the name) mention keeping the different Thorichthys in large groups groups. Basically, the authors said crowding them enough to disperse aggression did not prevent spawning and because of their nature the fusses over territory were mild. Is there a reason you don't ever see people keep them like that?

Thank you,
Aaron

CA cichlid dude
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by CA cichlid dude » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:17 pm

Good question. I have never done it myself, but I have read that Meeki do live in groups together in the wild.

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Jim Cumming
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by Jim Cumming » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:36 pm

From my experience with 'meeki' and 'affinis', Thorichthys seem to cope quite well in groups if given lots of different areas in which to set up territories. Breaking the bottom up with pieces of driftwood, rocks and plants (plastic for me) allows pairs to establish multiple territories in fairly confined spaces. I have had four pairs of 'meeki' successfully spawning and raising their young, sometimes simultaneously in a tank with a footprint of 18" x 18". It's amazing just how small a territory they will defend if in relatively close quarters. Other than lots of "bluff anf bluster", they never really bothered with one another that much. And the presence of multiple pairs certainly caused strong pair bonds. Having said that, these fish all grew up together from an early age and size.
-Jim
"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them".
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aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:07 am

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I think species only tanks such as the one you described are incredibly interesting because you get to see a range of behaviors not seen in mixed species tanks. I wanted to try a tank like this earlier, but I was side tracked. Makes sense that they would take such small territories since they are found in high densities in the wild.

Do you guys know if there are any meeki with collection data floating around? I don't have much of a cichlid network :(

CA cichlid dude
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by CA cichlid dude » Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:03 am

There are some great articles on this site in the documents section.

aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:30 pm

Nobody else have kept them in groups?

Looking for any type of feedback on how well it worked out.

Bas Pels
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by Bas Pels » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:46 am

In Europe, quite a lot of people keep Thorichthys in groups.

For instance in a 130 * 60 * 50 tank 6, preferably 3:3, together with a few life bearers

In fact I was thinking yur topic was a joke -as keeping Thorichthys in groups is so well known

Obviously, in a larger tank you can keep more

aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:29 pm

Maybe I am just really really ill informed? No joke here.

I have asked the same question before and still no hits. I was actually told quite the opposite about meeki. Do you have any examples Bas? Are certain species better for groups than others? I am not interested in trying it if I have to make the tank so packed with line of sight breaks that I can't enjoy watching all of the behaviors.

Bas Pels
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:47 am

Personally, I've kept Th aurratus - 7 in a 130 * 50 cm tank, later they went into a 200 * 80 cm tank, with other species. in the 80's I had 5 Th meeki in a 80 * 40 cm tank for a year. This was, looking back, too small for this group - but I did not have problems with the fishes, they even bred. PErhaps it worked out because Th meeki is bred in huge numbers, low quality in Eastern Asia. Wild type meeki mioght be a bit more agressive, and need a larger tank

But somehow Thorichthys is a group of fsh I don't care about - so I have only a very limited experience with them

I could list a lot of Dutch people who keep them in groups - meeki (wild types, R candelaria and others), pasionis, helleri, aureum you nema them, they are kept in groups - but I will have to think about privacy here.

aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:13 pm

Thanks,

I'll just try and see.

Michael Kwist
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by Michael Kwist » Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:37 pm

Dear all,

I have some groups of Thorichthys species, I think when they are kept in groups they show more natural behavior than keeping them in pairs.
When they are kept as pairs they show more agression between eachother, don't forget that the male will be agressive after the breeding period, so with one female you're female will be hit by the male.. or killed in a small tank.
In a group the males switch between the females, i have at the moment Thorichthys pasionis and i keep them in a group of 8 fish (4 pairs) this works great for me, they spawn always at the same time.. at the same place.. this is so amazing to see.
I keep also my Thorichthys Helleri in a group... before this Thorichthys species did i also kept Thorichthys meeki.. and when they are kept in a group, than do you see this behavior ;)
vergadering1.jpg
Thorichthys meeki from the rio candelaria (mexico)
Greetings Michael.

aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:34 pm

Thank you so much for that reply.

Can you tell me what size tank you are using for 4 pairs?

Michael Kwist
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by Michael Kwist » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:45 am

Hello,

I would suggest a minimum tanksize of 150cm for 4 pairs, (for the bigger sized Thorichthys as meeki,pasionis,aureus,ellioti) but smaller sized Thorichthys as socolofi and callolepis can be kept in bigger groups in a 150cm tank.
Don't forget to add some ditherfish as Poecilia or swordtails they help a lot to protect the Thorichthys for stress because some Thorichthys are shy! I have in all my tanks dither fish as Poecilia and Astyanax,
The most possitive thing about keeping Thorichthys is the setup of the tank, you can use plants, but also small wood branches are possible to give the tank a natural touch :)
Greetings Michael.

aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:21 pm

My tank is roughly 182x45 cm, so looks like I have the size to do a large group. The plan for dithers were some wild swords as you mentioned. When you setup your tank, do you leave it fairly open or do you make use rocks and driftwood to create a lot of line of sight breaks?

Michael Kwist
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by Michael Kwist » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:13 pm

A picture says more than a few words :lol: .. so here a overview picture of one of my tanks.
Image
I used much rocks and also some pieces of wood, with a mix of sand and pebbles to get a natural look.
Greetings Michael.

aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:34 pm

Yeah, that picture is great :D

I have an idea of what I want to do now, thank you very much!

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Juan Artigas
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by Juan Artigas » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:27 am

I personally keep Thorichthys groups for a number of years now in 1.50 meters long tanks, 400 liters in capacity. I keep them in large groups, not as large as Rusty Wessel, but for example in one tank I keep for seven years now an average group of 22 Thorichthys affinis from Lake Peten, three generations, the larger fish are close to 15 cm. They do well and sometimes in breeding time I have five pairs breeding simultaneously, and some fry even survive to adulthood there. I have another tank with about 40 Thorichthys, a mix of T. callolepis and T sp 'coatzacoalcos', they do very well.I always have large Poeciilids with them but they eat them when young, so they need plenty of surface cover for the small and medium sized ones. I also offer fine sand to pick as substrate and plenty of driftwood to hide/mark territories. Hope this helps
Juan Miguel Artigas
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The Cichlid Room Companion
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aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Sat Mar 03, 2012 5:55 pm

Thank you for helping me out.

For me, this thread is the first time I have heard about successful group setups, so I'm glad to hear it works out. I had a feeling it would be fine after reading the articles describing their behavior in the wild.

Aaron

aaron
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by aaron » Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:31 am

Hello Everybody,

It has been some time since I started this thread, but I now have the tank to try my first group of Thorichthys in. I know this forum is not really big on answering "what to stock" questions, but a little guidance on how large of a group to start with would be greatly appreciated.

Tank size is 72"x18"x22" or 182.88x45.72x 55.88 cm for you non American guys :D . Thorichthys pasiones is the cheapest option for me, would they do well in a group setup? Would you guys suggest I start with 12, 18, or 24?



Thanks,
Aaron

RobinH
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Re: Thorichthys in groups

Post by RobinH » Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:34 am

I have 7 pasionis "laguna perdida" in one of my tanks its 150x60x60cm and it works great, but if i had the possibilites i would buy another 3 at least.

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