Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

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Mark Smith
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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Mark Smith » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:45 pm

Good job Chris!

There is such a great amount of observational writings in that book, it really is fascinating.

Did you get Angel's book yet??

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Fazi64 » Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:28 pm

Mark Smith wrote:...Did you get Angel's book yet??
No, I did not :( I am still waiting for an answer about shipping cost for four books together.
Chris

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Fazi64 » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:22 pm

Mark Smith wrote:...You might like the book, Fish Communities in Lake Tanganyika from Kyoto University Press that was published in 1997. Lots of unique and fascinating behaviors observed and recorded from several Japanese ichthyologists. Great reading!...
Hi,
You were right Mark. The book is really very ineresting, as my first impression just after receiving my copy. Again many thanks for an advice to buy it :)
Chris

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Mark Smith » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:11 pm

My pleasure!

Books like this are very rare, and it is important to either have a copy, or have access to a copy to learn more about the cichlids from this lake. Of course, this book only begins to scratch the surface of interesting information on the fishes from the lake.

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by J-wedding » Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:10 am

I know this has become a very old topic.

But still I can't help but wonder why there is so little known about Microdontochromis?
They have triggered my interest.

I have a tank with 10 X. Nigrolabiata and I was fixated on Trematocara as a tankmate for them.
But now I have discovered the Microdontochromis, which swim somewhat higher and because of this they do not have to share territory with the Xeno's. So I was wondering if this would be a wise decission.

Is there anything more known about this combination, about the behaviour of the Microdontochromis?, feeding pattern, breeding...anything that would deepen the subjects that already have been discussed in this topic?

What are the things that are really important considdering this interesting fish?

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Gerd » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:59 am

Hello!
J-wedding wrote:I know this has become a very old topic.
Indeed! But I was very pleased, when I found it reactivated, because I have been entertaining the idea of reactivating it myself since several weeks. I have been keeping a group of Microdontochromis (Are they Xenotilapia presently?) tenuidentata some years ago, and I am keeping a group of M. rotundiventralis since march.
J-wedding wrote:Is there anything more known about this combination, about the behaviour of the Microdontochromis?, feeding pattern, breeding...anything that would deepen the subjects that already have been discussed in this topic?
Yes, and I'm very interested in exchanging experiences about these fish. For me, maybe this is an individual problem, breeding is a challenge.
But to answer your question:
J-wedding wrote:I have a tank with 10 X. Nigrolabiata and I was fixated on Trematocara as a tankmate for them.But now I have discovered the Microdontochromis, which swim somewhat higher and because of this they do not have to share territory with the Xeno's. So I was wondering if this would be a wise decission.
Yes, it is a wise decision. Mirodontochromis rotundiventralis really prefer a somewhat higher level above the subsoil, comparable to Ectodus or Lestradea. And even less than those, they tend to taking food from the ground. They are picking it almost exclusively, while it is floating, from the open water.
Even when the lights are off-state, they do not sit on the ground, but get together with the Paracyprichromis brieni, I'm keeping them with, and "hang" even head downwards, close to the vertical rocks. This is a point, I was very astonished about! Because the Microdontochromis tenuidentata is different! It often sits on the ground, day and night, like a Xenotilapia.
And: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis is one of the most docile (if not THE most docile) cichlid, I became acquainted with. So, for sure, a good companionship to your X. nigrolabiata.

Let me add a question of my own.
Is there somebody who has experiences in breeding M. rotundiventralis? Or can tell about differences between female and male?
Or about their natural behaviour in the wild?
I'm afraid, that I have a group of ten females (assuming caught out of a school of females, what can be found of many species), because since march, I can't observe any mating, not even displaying, while the fish are healthy, lively and goodlooking.
Regards
Gerd
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Microdontochromis rotundiventralis_1.jpg

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Tasma
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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Tasma » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:42 am

Is there somebody who has experiences in breeding M. rotundiventralis? Or can tell about differences between female and male?
Or about their natural behaviour in the wild?
I'm afraid, that I have a group of ten females (assuming caught out of a school of females, what can be found of many species), because since march, I can't observe any mating, not even displaying, while the fish are healthy, lively and goodlooking.
Regards
Gerd
I do keep Microdontochromis tenuidentata (or tenuidentatus ;) . These species are very similar and maybe my information will help you.
Male apears to be about 1 cm larger and massive. Before and while incubating couple swim together. They take terms in incubating (sometimesboth sometimes only one of them incubate).
I've seen group of rotundiventralis and I think that sexual dimorphism looks similar.

Regard
Przemek

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Gerd » Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:04 am

Hello Przemek,
Thank you for your answer!
Tasma wrote:Male apears to be about 1 cm larger and massive. Before and while incubating couple swim together. They take terms in incubating (sometimesboth sometimes only one of them incubate).I've seen group of rotundiventralis and I think that sexual dimorphism looks similar.
As regards the size and massiveness of my M. r., there are no obvious differences between the individuals. This encourages my speculation, I might have a group of one sex.
Luckily I will get an increase of my group soon. Let’s see, what will happen thereafter.

I'm envious of you about your Microdontochromis tenuidentatus :wink:
As I wrote, I kept them several years ago and never again found them on any stocklist since years. It would be very interesting, to keep both for a comparison. In my retrospection, the M.t. showed a much more "xenotilapialike" behaviour, while the M. r.'s behaviour is more similar to that of Ectodus.

Regards
Gerd

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by J-wedding » Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:08 am

Hello Gerd,

In the mean time I have some (a short period) experience with X. rotundiventralis, but I concur.
What you describe sounds like a group of females.

The males tend to show off to eachother once in while, so that's behaviour you should've noticed by now.
Also, like with many cichlids, the male (in my case 'suspected' males) is stockier then the females.

Me and a friend of mine have also seen them sandsifting, alot actually.

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Gerd » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:48 am

Hello!
J-wedding wrote:The males tend to show off to eachother once in while, so that's behaviour you should've noticed by now.
Right!
And it's definitively not observable. Though all are vivacious and in good condition.
J-wedding wrote:Me and a friend of mine have also seen them sandsifting, alot actually.
Even more strange: Mine never do! :o
I even have do be carefull with food. They do not take it from the subsoil!
Do they play a trick on me? :shock:
Fish are strange people!
J-wedding wrote:The males tend to show off to eachother once in while
I wish you good luck for successful breeding!

Eagerly waiting for the increase of my group
and with regards.
Gerd

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by J-wedding » Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:38 am

Here is a picture of them sandsifting
Image
Image

And some general photo's
Image

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by MGSNK » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:21 pm

I've been keeping a group of 9 in a meter tank and i'm trying to find suitable tank mates for them... any ideas?
The Xenotilapia Ornatipinnis is quite nice, but somehow, there is a lot of interaction between the two species, as my dominant male Ornatipinnis chases the Rotundiventralis away, which automatically means that the Rotundiventralis lose some of their behaviour.

Since its not bigger than a meter, and I'm only keeping the Rotundiventralis in it, I was thinking about Trematocara Variabilis... Anyone have any experience with this combination?

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Gerd » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:33 pm

Hello,
MGSNK wrote:I was thinking about Trematocara Variabilis... Anyone have any experience with this combination?
Seems to be quite difficult to find someone, having kept this combination.
Neverthless the idea seems to be reasonable. But only empiricism will show, if the idea works. I would have supposed X. ornatipinnis to be a good tank mate to M. rotundiventralis too..............
MGSNK wrote:i'm trying to find suitable tank mates for them... any ideas?
I can recommend Paracyprichromis. In my case it works perfectly. The two species do not affect each other at all. But, having seen your tank in the other thread, I admit, this would cause some tank alterations. So, if you have the chance to test the combination you have in mind, it's worth a try.

I wish you success!
And, let us know!

Regards
Gerd

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by MGSNK » Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:38 am

I haven't had much success with any Paracyprichromis in such a small tank, at some point they seem to lose appetite, become stressfull and perish.
My last group of Brieni died from a nasty worm infection, which they probably caught from my wildcaught tank specimens.
So as a precaution I'm treating my wildcaught Microdontochromis for worms too.
I actually bought the 'Micro's' as an alternative for the Paracyprichromis :P.

Concerning the Ornatipinnis... I removed them from the tank last week and put them in a small 60cm tank for a few days. I did some rework on the barriers in the meter tank and re-added them two days ago. We'll see how it goes. If i'm satisfied with their behaviour towards the 'Micro's' i'll upgrade the group to 6 members.

The Trematocara is still a viable option though..!


Best regards,
Edin.

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by MGSNK » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:47 am

Well, I took my chances and ordered 7 Trematocara Variabile...
With a little bit of luck they will be here before Christmas.

In any case, the Rotundiventralis are doing marvelously. Their pearly scales are starting to show and I can see some courting behaviour every now and then. They are not as docile as you described them to be Gerd :lol: . Some of them frequently chase each other.

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by MGSNK » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:07 am

Update:

During a water change I found 2 juveniles in the tank!
And I saw one parent spitting a little one out and taking it back!

So there is definitely offspring in the tank. I managed to put the two lost juveniles into a small seperation tank, in the aquarium.
Will put up some pictures ASAP.

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by MGSNK » Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:12 am

Image

Image

Image

Image

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Gerd » Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:29 pm

Hello!
Good news!
From me too. Coincidence! I've got fry too, two days ago.
I didn't have more than a suspicion, that three females were holding. There was no obviously bigger throat pouch to be seen. And the "females under suspicion" were eating just like any other tankmate. Many things seem to happen quite covertly with this species.
But the biggest surprise was the tininess of the fry! Uncommon for a mouthbrooder. Even though one female doesn't hold more than 8 - 12 eggs, the fry isn't bigger than that of a rock dweller or say Triglachromis, 3 - 4 mm. This is the sort of fry, even Paracyprichromis will devour. Trematocara likewise. So, if we want to bring up the fry, we will need a species only tank, I apprehend. I need a new tank. Again.

Regards
Gerd

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by MGSNK » Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:29 pm

Gerd wrote:Hello!
Good news!
From me too. Coincidence! I've got fry too, two days ago.
I didn't have more than a suspicion, that three females were holding. There was no obviously bigger throat pouch to be seen. And the "females under suspicion" were eating just like any other tankmate. Many things seem to happen quite covertly with this species.
But the biggest surprise was the tininess of the fry! Uncommon for a mouthbrooder. Even though one female doesn't hold more than 8 - 12 eggs, the fry isn't bigger than that of a rock dweller or say Triglachromis, 3 - 4 mm. This is the sort of fry, even Paracyprichromis will devour. Trematocara likewise. So, if we want to bring up the fry, we will need a species only tank, I apprehend. I need a new tank. Again.

Regards
Gerd
Hmm that is strange, my fry isn't big either, but certainly bigger than 4mm (head to tail). This could indicate that the fathers haven't yet held the youngsters.
Have they released the fry yet? Mine didn't except those of the pictures, which they probably release when I scared them.

Quote from literature:

"Mouthbrooding parents ate zooplankton as actively as nonbrooding members for nourishment of both the young and themselves. Young smaller than 6 m m SL were mouthbrooded solely by females, but later by either females or males."

My guess is mine will still keep the juveniles in their mouths for at least another week, maybe 2.

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Re: Microdontochromis rotundiventralis

Post by Gerd » Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:38 am

Hello!
Gerd wrote:Quote from literature:"Mouthbrooding parents ate zooplankton as actively as nonbrooding members for nourishment of both the young and themselves. Young smaller than 6 m m SL were mouthbrooded solely by females, but later by either females or males."
Could you please give me the source? There's so little written about this species.
Gerd wrote:My guess is mine will still keep the juveniles in their mouths for at least another week, maybe 2.
Indeed, when for the first time I remarked, that one of the fish might be holding, it was december 17th. So 22 days befor this release now. A couple of days later, another fish seemed to be holding, and soon a third one. This corresponded perfectly to what was written by Estelle and Winnyston in the first postings of this thread. But five days ago, that is after 20 days of holding, I remarked, that there was only one fish left holding! I was searching around in the tank, but couldnt find fry.
Then the third released the fry, which I could catch out immediately. Why it is so tiny? I don't know. (Luckily, they are vivid, eagerly feeding on freshly hatched brine shrimp and growing fast!)
I see one more possibillity: All three fish, which had been holding, had released their fry before (and it has been devoured by the Paracyprichromis) and the fry released now is from a subsequent spawn. I might not have remarked this fourth holding fish, because the indications that point to a holding fish are so marginal.
What can you tell us?
From what you wrote, I guess, you didn't remark the holding fish either.
I'm very eager to make more and better observations now. And I realized, that you must be much more vigilant, than with other species, because everything is so concealed. Unfortunately I have to leave my house from time to time to make a living. And to finance my hobby. :roll:
And let me ask one more question: Does your fry also have this bright white "cap"? I think, I can see it in the pics you posted, but it was quite flashy with my fry.
So long! Waiting for more spawns and more observations
and wishing you good luck with yours.
Gerd

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