flowerhorn male or female?

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gage
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flowerhorn male or female?

Post by gage » Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:29 pm

here is a picture
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/ ... 1175380115
wut do u guys/girls think

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Aquamojo
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Post by Aquamojo » Sat Mar 31, 2007 6:30 pm

Welcome to the forum. I think you will find that the majority of the people here have no use for Flowerhorns. My short answer would be that at one time somewhere in it's lineage...there was a Trimac involved. Then it got ugly.
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Lisachromis
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Post by Lisachromis » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:30 pm

As Mo said, most of the members here do not like flowerhorns very much as they are a hybrid. That said.... I don't know the sex of your fish. Even though most people don't like them, does anyone have an educated guess?

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Post by andregurov » Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:26 pm

Not a good angle for a photo - but a female would be my guess.

Mojo maintains they taste pretty well ... regardless of gender. Please be careful if breeding this fish, the offspring would be almost impossible to differentiate from trimaculatus. In fact, I would strongly discourage you (as would almost all members here) from breeding FHs at all. They make very nice individual fish, but the collective cost to the hobby is frightful.

J
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gage
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Post by gage » Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:07 am

dont get me wrong i hate the idea of hybrids, but they dont deserve a bad life becuz some idiot did this. and i WILL NOT breed them

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Post by Dan Woodland » Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:43 am

gage wrote:dont get me wrong i hate the idea of hybrids, but they dont deserve a bad life becuz some idiot did this. and i WILL NOT breed them
I'm not lumping you in with "some idiot did this" when I say this:

The problem is that they are sold encouraging "some idiot to do this" so wether they are bred is not the problem, that there is a demand created by people buying them "some idiot will do this" again with something else!

Dan

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Grummie2
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Post by Grummie2 » Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:11 pm

Sentiments as above, but the fish itself deserves a good life, it's not her fault :wink: . Gender I would say female because of the black dorsal marking and the size of the genitals. Nice chunky fish !
Graham

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k98
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Post by k98 » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:47 am

well said dan

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Post by marcootje » Tue Apr 03, 2007 9:08 am

its a bad picture. but isnt this a regular trimac female? maybey a but white belly. but that can also be the light.
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Post by Ken Davis » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:38 am

That's not even close to a trimac( but does have triamc blood), it looks like a flowerhorn reject to me, i.e. didn't turn out right so they dumped it. I'd say carpinte cross trimac and maybe something else in there also. Keep it for a pet, but never breed it. Ken
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Post by cichlid fan Lee » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:16 pm

Dan Woodland wrote:
gage wrote:dont get me wrong i hate the idea of hybrids, but they dont deserve a bad life becuz some idiot did this. and i WILL NOT breed them
I'm not lumping you in with "some idiot did this" when I say this:

The problem is that they are sold encouraging "some idiot to do this" so wether they are bred is not the problem, that there is a demand created by people buying them "some idiot will do this" again with something else!

Dan
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Post by Dan Woodland » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:26 pm

Blue de, ah hem, Blue dem, whew, Blue ddd demp, cough, Blue dee dee demp. NO! I can't! :lol:
Dan

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Post by cichlid fan Lee » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:01 pm

Dan Woodland wrote:Blue de, ah hem, Blue dem, whew, Blue ddd demp, cough, Blue dee dee demp. NO! I can't!
Dan
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Post by dogofwar » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:11 pm

Looks like a female to me... and one that has some trimac in its lineage.

I guess I don't understand all of the hostility toward Flowerhorns... not my cup of tea, but lots of people like them and (more importantly for LFS and breeders) buy them. Lot's of people like fancy bettas or crazy looking goldfish as well...

Who are we to say that breeding this female Flowerhorn with a Double Dragon AAAA (whatever that means :) Flowerhorn won't produce some really desireable (to those who like Flowerhorns) babies?

Enjoy your Flowerhorn and Just don't try to sell the babies as pure Trimacs...

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Post by Dan Woodland » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:01 pm

dogofwar wrote: I guess I don't understand all of the hostility toward Flowerhorns... not my cup of tea, but lots of people like them and (more importantly for LFS and breeders) buy them.
Not wanting to promote something doesn't imply hostility.
dogofwar wrote: Lot's of people like fancy bettas or crazy looking goldfish as well...
Personally, I don't keep those either. We're all intitled to our opinions and preferences.
dogofwar wrote: Enjoy your Flowerhorn and Just don't try to sell the babies as pure Trimacs...
That's exactly the problem and our point! People do sell off the fry as the wrong fish!

Dan

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Post by Lisachromis » Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:31 pm

dogofwar wrote: Lot's of people like fancy bettas or crazy looking goldfish as well...
The thing is that goldfish, for all their funky appearance are still just goldfish. They are not goldfish/koi hybrids or goldfish/whatever crosses. I was going to say Bettas as well, but technically, the ones we buy in the petstore are as much a cross as are the swordtails and platies. (I believe imbellis was used in with splendens.)

It's the reason people go for pure lineage. I know someone who bred something that he was told was one species, and I can guarantee that they aren't now. They bred and the fry look all wrong. Right colours, and right shape, but totally wrong splotches on the body. And amazingly enough he says he a species in his tank that he doesn't recall buying. I suspect that was one of the young fish he purchased as the original species. To buy something because it's Sp. A and to find out after all the time and money invested that it's not Sp. A would be more than a little annoying.

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Post by dogofwar » Tue Apr 03, 2007 10:37 pm

Like them or not, Flowerhorns are INTENTIONAL crosses between species to get something that is unique (some would say uniquely grotesque...while others would say uniquely beautiful). There's a big difference between intentionally created hybrids (like Flowerhorns, parrots, red texas, etc.) and those created accidentally (the female mbuna with a mouthful of who-knows-what in the assorted African tank).

Flowerhorns have a huge following, including stores pretty much dedicated to them here in Sacramento. People who are serious about flowerhorns are passionate and knowledgeable about their fish and remind me a lot of betta enthusiasts: importing and line breeding from the best stock, endless water changes, constantly culling and looking for exceptional fish. A lot of less than optimal fish are sold at LFS (cheaply)...just like a lot of less than optimal bettas are sold at LFS (cheaply). There seems to be a nearly insatiable demand for both (from the general public).

I don't own any Flowers but they have a lot of the appeal that red devils and other glass bangers have, in my opinion (not my cup of tea either).

Unethical people are going to mis-represent one fish for another no matter what. Happens all the time with F0, F1, etc. Wanna buy some wild Vics? (Just kidding :) That doesn't mean that we should stop promoting the sale of fish in LFS without bonafide pedigrees ("I saw the fish captured in the lake!")...

LFS also do their patrons a huge dis-service by mis-labeling fish (in my experience much more common than intentional misrepresentation), mixing varients for sale in the same tank (especially female peacocks!) and selling groups of fish as "assorted". These are signs of laziness or ignorance, but are really common practices at a lot of LFS.

My perspective is that Flowerhorn enthusiasts are into different things than wild-type cichlid enthusiasts. I'm one of the latter, by the way... I just see a positive place in the hobby for folks who are into Flowerhorns and the like (they shouldn't be discouraged from keeping what they like)...except if they're going to try to sell the babies as "wild" trimacs, etc.

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Post by Ken Davis » Wed Apr 04, 2007 9:53 am

My wife likes "fancy" goldfish, the more deformed they are and with more stuff hanging off their heads the more she likes them, so we have a tank in the house with these things, I don't like them, but they are still goldfish (even if groutestly deformed ones)
The main problem with flowerhorns is people who raise them don't seem to care about pure species, they don't seem to have a problem with dumping the 1,000's of excess fry off to anyone who will give them a few bucks and regularly they turn up in LFS labeled as a pure species. Then unknowing people buy them breed them and sell them again. It's just wrong.
I had an awesum 14" male V. synspilum disappear the day after a Flowerhorn geek visited my hatchery, he wanted to buy it to breed to some hybrid female he had, but I would not sell him (and he was half of a mated pair, I still don't have another male to go with my female and it's been a year) and I know where my male is, being used to create more monster fish. I used to never lock my hatchery, I do now. Ken
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Post by Lisachromis » Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:21 am

Everyone is going to have their opinion on this. I don't want to turn this into a "are flowerhorns good or bad" debate since the original question was, "is this a boy or a girl".

Obviously there are people who enjoy flowerhorns. There are people who absolutely detest them. Personally, I don't like them at all. However, since they are around, they do deserve good care until they die. I'd love it if no more were bred. I know that's an impossibility. So how about we just deal with the original question here?

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Post by Mark Smith » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:23 am

Perhaps the question should be asked: Should flowerhorns or any other hybrid cichlid be permitted to be discussed on cichlidae.com, a site that is devoted to true and valid, ie non-hybrid, cichlid species? There are already other sites on the internet that are not too particular about such things and those sites may be the best place to discuss and post photos of cichlid hybrids.

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