***help*** hybrid - but of what?

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fischerface
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***help*** hybrid - but of what?

Post by fischerface » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:15 pm

this is a pic of 1 of 2 fish that i purchased in january of 07. i have it posted on cichlids.com and have had many suggestions. con/flowerhorn , con/midas , festae/fh ...and so on... i was reffered to this site by some one on cichlids.com who told me there are a lot of experts here. for more pics of this fish you can visit http://www.cichlids.com and find them under my profile name joe fischer. any help and/or insight would be very much apperciated.

Image[/b]
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Lisachromis
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Post by Lisachromis » Wed Feb 07, 2007 8:37 pm

How big is this fish right now?

Dan Woodland
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Post by Dan Woodland » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:14 pm

Looks like an Amphilophus type possibly chancho.

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fischerface
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Post by fischerface » Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:34 pm

it is about 3.5 inches maybe 4 it's a little fat, they are real pigs during feeding time. that deffinatly looks like what i have...what is the common name? or is there one?
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Florent
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Post by Florent » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:10 am

C. nigrofasciatum * urophthalmus maybe

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Post by Dan Woodland » Thu Feb 08, 2007 7:12 am

Amphilophus sp. chancho, Laguna de Apoyo, Guatemala.

I received my F1 group from Willem Heijns (see Willem I can learn!)

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Willem Heijns
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Post by Willem Heijns » Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:03 am

keep up the good work, my boy :wink: :wink:
Slàinte mhath!

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Darrell Ullisch
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Post by Darrell Ullisch » Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:38 am

Not to be argumentative, Dan, but the mystery fish has a smaller mouth and steeper forehead profile, and the lateral line is located higher than on the Chanchos in your picture (scale counts), a ratio that does not change with maturity, which brings me to body depth ratio, which can change with age, but his fish is less than 4 inches, so would not likely be a mature Chancho. Also, could you point me to a photo of Chancho that shows that black mark in the dorsal fin? I can't find any.

The other point is that Chancho is, as yet, an uncommon fish even among Cichlid enthusiasts, and the probability of even finding it in a store somewhere, and then as an unidentified fish, strikes me as very low.

I'm not wholly convinced that the fish is a hybrid, but I've seen similar fish from Spilurum/Dempsey hybrids many, many years ago. Another possiblilty, but certainly not the only one.
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

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Post by Dan Woodland » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:28 pm

Well Mr. argumento :twisted: , I was fighting the urge to say a hybrid as has happened so many times on this forum and if you look at my post I said "Looks like an Amphilophus type" and "possibly chancho." Yes, it was an attempt to answer the question and still cover my caudal peduncle as it were.

By the way, variations in fish do allow for color patterns “out of the ordinary” to be present. As a matter of fact, my A. chancho have black in the dorsal. And not to be combative but I think your statement about the popularity of these fish is a bit amiss. :wink:

At least in this area, the Midwest, the A. chachno are very popular and a local guy here has shipped out bunches of them. I my self have distributed 10 -12 breeding pairs from my group! :shock:

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Post by Bas Pels » Thu Feb 08, 2007 1:04 pm

It could be a hybrid, and still look like a real species. I once had trimac, all females (but I did not know it) and addes an istlanum male.

They produced offspring, killing all fishes I did not reacue in time, the tank was only 150 cm = 5 feet, and I kept 5 of the offspring - out of curiosity.

The offspring looked very, very similar to uropthalmus, and produced eggs exactly 1 year after they were fertilised themselves. That was enough for my curiosity, and I destroyed the fishes, because I so not want to be guilty of producing hybrids.

The important thing is that the fishes looked like uropthalmus, including the bars, but unfortunately, I did not have a camara than (1989).

Bas

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Willem Heijns
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Post by Willem Heijns » Thu Feb 08, 2007 2:12 pm

here's another mystery fish :roll: :roll: :roll: :wink: :wink:

Image


can someone do something about picture sizes. I'm getting tired of hoizontal scrolling :shock:
Slàinte mhath!

Uilleam

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Post by sebastian00 » Sat May 12, 2007 2:42 pm

definetaly some amphilophus ,in my opinion it looks maybe chancho or some crossbreed maybe trimac/midas or labiatum i don't know exactlymi forgot to mention that i mean the 1 picture,the second maybe one of couple ofo apmhilophus family which one i don't know
I JUST LOVE AMERICAN CICHLIDS ,THEY JUST RULE

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Lisachromis
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Post by Lisachromis » Sat May 12, 2007 8:21 pm

Willem Heijns wrote:can someone do something about picture sizes. I'm getting tired of hoizontal scrolling :shock:
I'm not sure what else can be done other than asking the original poster to cut his posted image down at approx. 800 pixels wide. It's set at 1600 and the scrolling that it creates is difficult on the topic.

Maybe you can start a new thread with the new hybrid pics? Or, I can split the topic so you'll have a new thread.

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Post by Bas Pels » Sun May 13, 2007 4:03 am

I think Willems fishes are A amarillo. Perhaps he posted them to provide material to compare?

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Willem Heijns
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Post by Willem Heijns » Sun May 20, 2007 5:20 am

I fear I owe you guys an apology. my mistery fish really is Amphilophus species "chancho". it comes from Laguna Apoyo in Nicaragua (Woody: :oops: ).

it does show though that identifying fish from pictures is very difficult. in this thread four or five different names have been suggested (both hybrids and "real" species). I can only hope that, although for some of us it is fun to guess names, no definitive conclusions are ever drawn from this kind of identification :wink: .
Slàinte mhath!

Uilleam

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Post by Dan Woodland » Mon May 21, 2007 12:00 am

1st. Willem, great photo and I agree whole heartedly on 'IDing' fish via photos.

2nd, to make pictures a nice viewable size in photo shop use 600 pixels (width) and constrain proportions.

Dan

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James Shingler
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Post by James Shingler » Wed May 23, 2007 7:55 am

Its a night mare even in Europe. Lots of folk try our best to keep species and even varieties of species pure but are we just kidding ourselves that this is possible?

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Post by Bas Pels » Wed May 23, 2007 8:05 am

I think it depends on your timeframe

On the long run, all populations we have in captivity will disappear because of inbreeding.

For instance, how many Parachromis dovii do you think were imperted?

A part ofthese got breeding, and only a part of the fry got breeding again. thus the genetic basis is very small indeed, and the same goes for all other species.

The problems with Central American fishes are of caurse the worst, because noregular importers are based in that area. Thus any import is welcomed, and if an import contains 20 fishes of one variety, it is a lot.

From the amazon many more fishes are imported, and thus the genetic base is much broader. However, chances are high the fishes may look the same, but come from different places. I think the smae goes for African rift cichlids.

So in a few generations, we can choose to crosbreed between varieties, or see bloodlines shrink away. Not a nice coice, but a reality.

However, new imports will be able to keep the fishes healthy

On a much shorter run, by selecting people I get my fishes from, I think I'm not fooling myself

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