is this CA or SA

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PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn
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is this CA or SA

Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:16 pm

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its about 3cm now (excluding tail) very timid (gets pushed around by nannocara which its in a Q tank with (bought it from pets at home))

now there where firemouths in the tank just next to it, and they were smaller and had the red on their throuts allready.

now i did a bit of searchingaround on various profiles, and from the head shape i think it looks like an acara (aquidens) but the precense of optercules (if i spelt that right) seem to sujest its a Thorichtys sp.

your idea please
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Bas Pels
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Re: is this CA or SA

Post by Bas Pels » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:52 am

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn wrote: from the head shape i think it looks like an acara (aquidens) but the precense of optercules (if i spelt that right) seem to sujest its a Thorichtys sp.
Funny, I was thinking exactly the same. However, the fish being young, and thus a bit more rounded, and I thing iw will grow into a more obvious Totrichthys (not meeki, but eliotti, helleri or one of the other species)

Bas

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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:16 am

all the Thorichtys sp. seem to like alkaline waters, so thats easy (despite my water being REALLY soft it wond go acid at all) but i got to work out what tank i'll keep it in.

i have a 50g planted geo tank (will be moving the geos out and moving rams and nannocara into it) with a pH of 7, Kh3 Gh2

a 100g a 40g and a 32g mbuna tanks however their due a reshuffle. if it goes in the 32g it will be with juvi stage mbuna(3/4-1.5"mbuna)

i may get some Ptychochromis cf. grandidieri off of damba1 (hopefully) so maybey it'd mix with them??

there is also a 7g kicking around (20by10by10") but that seems too small too do anything with.

there is also a 45g, but i got to reshuffle my tanks a bit.

i'd hate to have to take it back to the shop (i sort of rescued it, they had no idea what it was, and dont really check b4 selling them (they sold my parent oscars as harlaquin rasboras) so i took it to grow it out to find out what it was)
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Lisachromis
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Post by Lisachromis » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:57 am

PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn wrote: (they sold my parent oscars as harlaquin rasboras)
I hate to do this... but

ImageImageImageImageImageImage

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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:54 pm

i laughed about it afterwards, but when they started munching on tetras i wasnt ammused.

i knew at first sight they wernt harlaquins, but took me about 2 weeks to find out what they were, after about 5 mins in the fish book i knew they were cichlids, i would love to have them though.

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not seen that variety since either
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Lisachromis
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Post by Lisachromis » Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:23 pm

Very cool looking fish

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Post by GIjoe » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:51 pm

Maybe a juvenile anomalochromis thomasi. Sorta looks like some juvies I saw a couple years ago. Possibly one of the other West African dwarves. HTH
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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:26 pm

i see a few similarities.

i'm going to grow it out and see what develops, so gonna keep it around neutral pH and hardness. however i think i'm going to have to get some live foods. it is eating, but compared to the 3 nannacara in there its not got an apitite, i've only seen it eating 1ce, but it isnt looking thin.

i'm considering housing him with my male ram, who needs beefing up. and feeding them brineshrimp and such like to get them to grow quicker, might order a small pot of NLS growth. i'm just using the general cichlid formula currently
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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:24 am

back to id'ing this fish the latest photos, and the bugger seems to have lost the optercules (am i spelling this right) but is showwing some pink on the gill plates and throat occasionly.

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unfotunatly i've lost all the nannacara that were in the Q tank with him (no idea why, i'd find them lying on their sides and they'd be dead withing 8 hours, water tested fine.) so hes in a 7g by himself.

btw would this be a feasable tank long term, as i'm unlikly to get any compnions for him/her, the tank is 20"by10"by10" and i will be building a DIY canister filter for it. with 3 swordtails as dithers (1m2f)

edit - the latest sp i've had sugested is T socolofi which currently i'm inclined to think it may be
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Post by Dan Woodland » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:55 pm

I say Thorichthys sp. That's the problem with buying fish at your local fish store run by people that have no idea what the "hobby" is all about. I especially like the tanks marked "mixed Africans" and it's full of 4" African cichlids that any employee in the store knows nothing about.

One plus side to shopping at such a store for the experienced hobbyist, you can find some real steals when shipments arrive with "contaminants"! Dan

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Darrell Ullisch
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Post by Darrell Ullisch » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:55 pm

Before you assume Thorichthys, you could also consider Amphilophus longimanus. I've often wondered why that species isn't in Thorichthys, as externally it looks so much like them. Your fish is showing certain characteristics that certainly look to me like A. longimanus.

On the other hand, if I saw a cichlid that resembled a Thorichthys, and it was in a tank next to a tank full of meeki (reread the first post, gang), I probably would assume the most logical explanation, which is that fish jump, and he is one that did so. Poor coloring could simply be a matter of being the only one of his kind in the tank. It's also a fairly young fish. I say patience, as the fish matures, it will become easier to identify.

There's a rule of logic that says the simplest answer is usually the correct one. I just love watching the brains around here with their ears smoking from overthinking things. :twisted:
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:33 am

well not quite next the tank was 1 row beneath and to the left :D

i'm fairly certain its not meeki, as it hasnt shown any of the darker colours i've seen on any meeki ive seen uin the shops, both smaller and larger
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Post by Willem Heijns » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:18 pm

I would go for longimanus too. the speckling on the dorsal fin is a clear indication for that.

I do fail to see the close relationship with Thorichthys. external resemblance is no good measure.
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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:44 pm

i see some similarities, but none of the specimins i've seen in the various profiles have that spot on the caudal fin.

also teh line thats running down the side stps at the spot in the middle (i need some better terms to describe what i mean) in the various profiles whereas it reaches the tail here.

the other thing is this was a pity buy from a large chain store, (and i'm not saying i'm an expert or anything, but i knew more about fish than all the staff put together) so i dont really expect it to be that rare a fish (i dont think this place has ever seen a wild caught) though i concede the mix-up may have occured at the wholesaylors, who seem to have some intresting fish on their lists (i'm good friends with a local LFS and they get their fish from the same supplier, and i've seen a few of the lists.)

I'll keep in around nuetral pH and low hardness, and grow it out some more.
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Post by Dan Woodland » Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:09 pm

Apologies kids, I didn't see the second set of photographs. Dan

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Darrell Ullisch
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Post by Darrell Ullisch » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:52 pm

I bred longimanus in 1994, and they were available well before that. They've come and gone several times over the last 12 years, various populations, so I'd never call them "rare". There are certainly pond bred stocks in Florida, as well as aquarium stocks bred for many generations by various hobbyists. Rarity is a regional condition for most cichlids these days, and one erroneous shipment from Florida can change that.

The point still is that you are trying to identify from a juvenile fish, which will certainly change pattern and color as it matures. You can't identify a juvenile by looking at a picture of an adult, at least, not by color or pattern.
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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:19 pm

(s)he's getting prettier by the day. a few quick shot i've got of him/her. escuse the water stains and poor focussing, it hides in the shadows a lot so its tricky to get the focus just on, and flash highlights hos much water has trickled down.

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however i came accross a photo (In the PFK magazine) and i can see huge numbers of similarities with Amphilophus Robertsoni

however the presence of the optercule throws me still as that is missing on all the photos i've seen of amphilophus sp
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Post by Juan Artigas » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:22 am

Your suspicious are founded. The fish is actually a Thorichthys, hard to say from those pictures with certainly but most likely T. maculipinnis, although it could also be T. meeki.
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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:15 am

well its doing well in slightly alkaline water (ph 7.2-7.4) but minimal hardness (0.5gh 0.25kh) (It never goes acid, even with driftwood its never gone below 6.8)

i've seen a supplier with juvinile T ellioti (whish is the same as maculipinnis, isnt it) so i can email them asking for some juvi photos.

i dont think its meeki, as its not had the RED throat that even small specimins i've seen (its more of a pink, flash is making it slightly more intense than it actually is) and i've never seen a meeki as lightly coloured (base colour that is) as this 1.

{edit} i found a photo on the web of a young meeki the smae colour, but i dont think its that. went back to the shop and had a CLOSE look at the meeki they had in, not 1 had anywhere near as solid a line down their side (it seems to taper off at the end) and the banding (top to midway) isnt nearly as pronounced,
also (this might be completly wrong reasoning here) the shape of the optercule on the meeki (deffinate meeki this is) is round where as this seems more crescent/teardrop shaped, as well as that the spot in the middle of the line down the body was rimmed with green on the meeki and this fish isnt.

as of yet i havent had a reply to my request of t ellioti/maculipinnis pictures, gonna try again to get some.
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Post by PsYcHoTiC_MaDmAn » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:03 am

a few newer photos.

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the flash has unfortunatly removed a lot of the red form the fish, its now quite strong from the throat all the way down the body and into the anal fin.

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this is a night time colouration, i came in after the timers had switched off all the tank lights and HAD to switch the light on to move around and it was out in the open, so i grabed a quick photo whilst i could, i doubt it makes any ID easier.

i had a reply from the people who had T ellioti on their lists, unfortunatly i doidnt get a photo, but his oppinion was that it was possibly a ellioti or aureus

and i've just noticed all the examples of bad typing in my posts, so i appologise for it.
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