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Tropheus Kaisermoorii I & Kaisermoorii II

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:58 am
by markh
HI All,
I'm not real knowledgable in regards to Tropheus. I was wondering about the differences between these 2 tropheus? I know that the yellow band is larger on one than the other, but other than that what else? I'm a big fan of not hybridizing any fish so if they breed would it be considered a hybrid with them being so similar? I haven't been able to get any real good information on the internet in regards to differences. Anyway any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark H.

Re: Tropheus Kaisermoorii I & Kaisermoorii II

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:37 pm
by Philippe Burnel
The yellow band goes into the dorsal fin in Kiriza, not in the Ikola morph, this one having a larger band

Ikola :

Image

Kiriza :

Image

Re: Tropheus Kaisermoorii I & Kaisermoorii II

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:08 am
by fmueller
If preserving the biodiversity of fish in the hobby is important to you, you should not cross breed any fish with distinctive genetic traits, especially if they come from different collection points. Whether or not the different fish have been scientifically described as separate species (which would make the crosses hybrids) is as immaterial as the whole wretched hybrid debate in the US.

As far as I know, two Tropheus variants have the term 'Kaiser' in their common name. Neither one seems to belong to the described species Tropheus moorii, which makes calling them Kaisermoorii somewhat misleading. I believe it might be an outdated term. Futhermore, neither variant seems to belong to any described species. However, people appear to consider Kaiser as belonging to what's tentatively called sp. 'Ikola', while Kaiser II is believed to belong to sp. 'Black'. According to the Cichlid-forum.com profiles, the most appropriate names would be:

Kaiser: Tropheus sp. "Ikola" (Ikola)

Kaiser II: Tropheus sp. "Black" (Kiriza)

As Philippe pointed out, the main difference for the aquarist seems to be that Kaiser II have a narrower yellow band that extends into the dorsal fin, while in Kaiser the yellow band is wider, but the dorsal fin is mostly black.

Trivia: 'Kaiser' is the German word for emperor. (The term has its roots in Caesar.) According to Wikipedia, yellow was the color of Imperial China and is held as the symbolic color of the five legendary emperors of ancient China. In China, yellow often decorates royal palaces, altars and temples, and the color was used in the robes and attire of the emperors. I expect Kaiser Tropheus were named by a German Sinophile :D

Re: Tropheus Kaisermoorii I & Kaisermoorii II

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:25 pm
by JKDJEDI
markh wrote:HI All,
I'm not real knowledgable in regards to Tropheus. I was wondering about the differences between these 2 tropheus? I know that the yellow band is larger on one than the other, but other than that what else? I'm a big fan of not hybridizing any fish so if they breed would it be considered a hybrid with them being so similar? I haven't been able to get any real good information on the internet in regards to differences. Anyway any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark H.
Ikola have the red color above their eye where as the Kiriza do not. ;-)

Sent from the future on my Samsung Galaxy S 3!

Re: Tropheus Kaisermoorii I & Kaisermoorii II

Posted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:21 pm
by James Shingler
fmueller wrote:
Kaiser: Tropheus sp. "Ikola" (Ikola)

Kaiser II: Tropheus sp. "Black" (Kiriza)
Interestingly enough the most DNA evidence does not support dividing sp."Ikola" from other sp."Black" s.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2148/7/137/figure/F2
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m68 ... lltext.pdf
http://evolution.unibas.ch/salzburger/p ... l_2011.pdf
+ Another one in 2010 I can not find a link for. :(
Best not cross in any case of course. Even variant crosses are not as desirable as true wild variants.

All the best James