Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

For discussion of all Tropheus & Petrochromis
johnathan
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Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by johnathan » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:55 am

"PISCES" farm Youtube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/Bemazaldagim

MGSNK
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by MGSNK » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:14 pm

Stripping fish, now there is something to be proud about :(

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Lisachromis
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by Lisachromis » Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:58 am

MGSNK wrote:Stripping fish, now there is something to be proud about :(
To strip the young or not to is a personal choice.

JCBlom
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by JCBlom » Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:31 pm

To strip or not to strip is a personal choise. But in the Netherlands we see it as a very very very bad choise ;)


But the tropheus on the movia are pretty :)

MGSNK
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by MGSNK » Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:02 pm

Lisachromis wrote:
MGSNK wrote:Stripping fish, now there is something to be proud about :(
To strip the young or not to is a personal choice.
And it's a good thing it is, I personally wouldn't be proud of it.

Not because I believe in some silly theory about fish losing out on parenting (I don't believe in that unproven mumbo jumbo).
But because it's our duty as animal keepers to treat our animals with respect and dignity.

I'm sorry, but stripping does not have anything to do with with respect and dignity.

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Klaus Steinhaus
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by Klaus Steinhaus » Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:53 pm

Thank you Johnathan for posting the video.
Tropheus are my favorite cichlids since over 30 years and the fish in the clip are very nice. However, stripping is not a procedure a caring aquarist would ever use with the exception of saving the females live. It is completely against nature and usually used by breeders for personal monitary gain.

BTW MGSNK, no unproven mumbo jumbo :)

MGSNK
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by MGSNK » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:22 am

@Klaus

Interesting, do you have a research paper that can back you up?

dogofwar
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by dogofwar » Wed Oct 19, 2011 2:40 pm

Klaus Steinhaus wrote:However, stripping is not a procedure a caring aquarist would ever use with the exception of saving the females live. It is completely against nature and usually used by breeders for personal monitary gain.
I think that you're making some pretty broad assumptions here...

Matt

MGSNK
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by MGSNK » Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:26 pm

dogofwar wrote:
Klaus Steinhaus wrote:However, stripping is not a procedure a caring aquarist would ever use with the exception of saving the females live. It is completely against nature and usually used by breeders for personal monitary gain.
I think that you're making some pretty broad assumptions here...

Matt
Oh Matt, please enlighten us with your vision on this matter :-? :lol:

Really I don't see any other reason for stripping animals than named above.
There are also a few more reasons not to strip.

Stripping animals kills off the 'strongest survive' principle. By saving all fry even the weakest animals survive. These weaker animals would not have survived under normal circumstances, for a good reason.

dogofwar
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by dogofwar » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:36 pm

...so I guess anyone who has ever stripped a fish is uncaring...and motivated by "personal monetary gain"???

Let's agree to disagree on this matter...

Matt

MGSNK wrote:
dogofwar wrote:
Klaus Steinhaus wrote:However, stripping is not a procedure a caring aquarist would ever use with the exception of saving the females live. It is completely against nature and usually used by breeders for personal monitary gain.
I think that you're making some pretty broad assumptions here...

Matt
Oh Matt, please enlighten us with your vision on this matter :-? :lol:

Really I don't see any other reason for stripping animals than named above.
There are also a few more reasons not to strip.

Stripping animals kills off the 'strongest survive' principle. By saving all fry even the weakest animals survive. These weaker animals would not have survived under normal circumstances, for a good reason.

Mark Smith
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by Mark Smith » Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:23 pm

What do you mean by respect and dignity? Does a given animal need to be respected from its own perspective, and does it have dignity, being aware of its own self worth and pride?

MGSNK
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by MGSNK » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:28 pm

Mark Smith wrote:What do you mean by respect and dignity? Does a given animal need to be respected from its own perspective, and does it have dignity, being aware of its own self worth and pride?
Well respected as being a living being and treated with dignity as you have control over its life and death for a large part of it's life. Just because they are less than humans in terms of development and awareness (or so we think) it doesn't give us the right to mistreat them.
I made the choice to keep them between 5 glass panels, the least thing I can do is handle them with care and do my best to make them feel comfortable.
Stripping animals is not a part of that routine in my honest opinion.

Mark Smith
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by Mark Smith » Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:20 pm

How do you know you are not violating your personal ethics code by simply maintaining your fish in the confines of an aquarium, in and of itself?

MGSNK
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by MGSNK » Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:57 pm

For someone with an aquarium that's always the toughest question to answer :lol:
They call that hypocrisy no?

In any case, no matter how you want to measure it (dignity, respect, value, etc etc etc), keeping fish (or any other animal for that matter) is one thing, treating them as trade value or objects is a bridge to far for my taste. And thats the feeling I get when I see people stripping their animals for no obvious reason.
Wouldn't buy any fish from strippers, its not only unethical (from my point of view) but also bad for the gene-pool.

Mark Smith
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by Mark Smith » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:51 pm

Are you implying that you are a hypocrite?

It is clearly not unethical to strip ones brooding cichlid. You seemed to say in no uncertain terms that it is unethical and goes against the dignity and respect of the animal. Now you are implying that such a perspective is just your point of view. Which is it? It either is, or isn't, wrong. It sort of reminds me of taking milk from cows, or eggs from chickens.

MGSNK
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by MGSNK » Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:54 pm

Mark Smith wrote:Are you implying that you are a hypocrite?

It is clearly not unethical to strip ones brooding cichlid. You seemed to say in no uncertain terms that it is unethical and goes against the dignity and respect of the animal. Now you are implying that such a perspective is just your point of view. Which is it? It either is, or isn't, wrong. It sort of reminds me of taking milk from cows, or eggs from chickens.
Yes, if you see the world in black and white then I should call myself a hypocrite. Since I keep fish between 5 panels yet I talk about ethics. But even though I keep my fish captive, ethics should still apply...

Well Mark, it's always an opinion, I think its wrong, but I guess others don't.
Comparing stripping with milking cows and taking eggs from chicken is off the mark, in my opinion.
Cows are often bred for this single purpose and are rarely fazed during thr milking procedure. Chicken lay their eggs, its not forced out of them
I've never seen a cichlid voluntarily give up its eggs for thr breeder t

Michael Andersen
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by Michael Andersen » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:44 pm

I newer strip a female of one single reason, I wouldnt miss out on one of the greatest opservations in the cichlid hobby - that is when a female takse care of the young fry, if a mouthbreeding female is in feks. a community tank where this is not posible i simply remove her to a smaller tank for her self so she can take care of her fry queitly. This ofcourse doesnt last fore long in some cases (with some species feks. cyps), but i wouldnt strip my fish aniway, i think there is no good reason to do so as they will spit the fry themself when they feel ready.

Just my opinion, do as you please :wink:

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Klaus Steinhaus
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by Klaus Steinhaus » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:07 pm

I could not agree more Michael :D

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James Shingler
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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by James Shingler » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:26 am

It is quite clearly a successful buisness this stripping of Tropheus. I do not think it is for me. But kind of hard to find good cheap Tropheus that have not been stripped. I managed it but dunno if I would be able to find none stripped F1 Tropheus again these days. :(

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Re: Tropheus breeding and raising at "PISCES" farm

Post by Ganapoes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:58 am

To strip or not to strip is a personal choise. But in the Netherlands we see it as a very very very bad choise

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