Dangerous project over Lake Nicaragua

Discussion about cichlid conservation and captive bred programs

Moderator: Ken Boorman

Post Reply
User avatar
Philippe Burnel
CichlidRoom Expert
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:54 am
Location: France/ Normandy
Contact:

Dangerous project over Lake Nicaragua

Post by Philippe Burnel » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:54 am


User avatar
Lisachromis
Administrator
Posts: 2860
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:11 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Post by Lisachromis » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:29 am

That doesn't sound good at all! Hopefully they don't get to make it.

:evil:

User avatar
Philippe Burnel
CichlidRoom Expert
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 5:54 am
Location: France/ Normandy
Contact:

Post by Philippe Burnel » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:33 am

On September 29, 2006, Nicaraguan officials said an announcement would be made soon on a $20-billion proposal to build a canal linking the Pacific and the Atlantic oceans.[

Bas Pels
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:17 am
Location: Nijmegen - the Netherlands

Post by Bas Pels » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:52 am

l wonder whether this project will pay for its costs, remember, the Panama channel (which already excists) will be huge cometition.

However, I'm certain it will be build, and named after el presidente opening it :cry:

User avatar
Lisachromis
Administrator
Posts: 2860
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:11 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada
Contact:

Post by Lisachromis » Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:11 am

The thing is, the new canal will supposedly be able to handle ships of a lot larger size. There is no competition from the other canal at all. :?

Dan Woodland
CichlidRoom Expert
Posts: 3050
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:49 am

Post by Dan Woodland » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:18 am

I would hope someone would think without thier wallets on stuff like this.
Dan

MatsP
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:30 am
Location: Farnborough, Hants, England

Post by MatsP » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:33 am

I'm not arguing for the project, but after several other debates on similar subject, I'd just like to say that it's very easy to sit in your nice home in a rich country and condemn the activities in a country where many people earn in a year what you earn in a day or two. And where the government is being pushed by big industry that may mean the difference between having paying jobs for a large number of "voters" or not - the same goes on in the "western" world, but we have the luxury of already having many big projects like this completed a few hundred years ago so that modern "green" ideas hadn't been invented.

However, if we all help by doing as much as we can to "pay" for the preservation of nature in exotic locations, we may be able to preserve at least some of it for the future - eco-tourism is one part of this, fair-trade another [where you buy products where the local population gets a better than "big corporation" share of the profits and thus don't have to use other means to supplement their income to the same extent]. Buying fish from these areas is probably (as a general rule) not a bad idea either, as the fish needs to have a habitat, and if it's important enough business in the country, then it gets priority - although this can also lead to "bad" things.

I'm sure the Columbia River power plant (in Washington State, USA) would be objectionable at some environmental level if someone tried to build it now - but it exists and has done so for many years, so it's not an issue. But in a country where electricity is more of a luxury than a ubiquity, building hydropower-plants is definitely something that affects peoples lives. Or building canals all over England, which was done in the 19th Century. The Panama Canal, Assuan Dam, Hoover Dam, etc, etc.

--
Mats

User avatar
bantamweight1911
Posts: 351
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:14 am

Post by bantamweight1911 » Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:40 am

I hope I am right to think that a project like this, is such an investment that a developing country would never be able to fund it, they would need outside help, and that will be met with strong opposition.

Lets hope it doesnt get built any time soon.

Bas Pels
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:17 am
Location: Nijmegen - the Netherlands

Post by Bas Pels » Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:00 pm

MatsP wrote: I'd just like to say that it's very easy to sit in your nice home in a rich country and condemn the activities in a country where many people earn in a year what you earn in a day or two.
I can only agree. I know thet many people in Nicaragua can only affard to eat a few beans, and thus do not develop rightly, resulting in many disformed people, who have very limited intelligence.

In my country highway lighting is dimmed in places with wild deer and so on. I think people are more important than these dear, and thus I think the nicaraguan people are entitled to think the same.

As the Panama chanel is apparently no competition (thanks Lisa) I think we better try to think out how to build the channel environmentally friendly than try to prevent the building completely.

Bas

Dan Woodland
CichlidRoom Expert
Posts: 3050
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:49 am

Post by Dan Woodland » Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:47 pm

Please don’t take this post as an assault or that I have been offended, I took no offense and intend no offense.

I hate this mode of communication for topics such as this because all the nonverbal communication is non-existent which aids us understanding each other and helps us to not take the written word in the wrong way.

**************
Against my better judgment, I posted on this topic because I figured my comment would be misconstrued as MatsP mentioned (in part my fault because I was too lazy to explain myself in the first place). I’m not arguing either, I truly meant I hoped that people involved in this project thought of “EVERY OTHER POSSIBILITY or OPTION” if this was solely a monetarily motivated project. There are always other options including ecotourism. There are plenty of places in Nicaragua and other Central American countries can be used for injecting much needed money into a country.

I hope it would help many Nicaraguans and their entire country but I’ve seen too many well intentioned projects do more harm than good and in the long run not help the targeted or intended group of people or country. The main problem with projects like this is management and short sightedness (not really knowing how the project will benefit or hurt the intended).

As for where I live, I won’t apologize for being fortunate enough to be born where I was and it doesn’t mean I don’t do my part in helping others less fortunate in my country and others.

Dan

MatsP
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:30 am
Location: Farnborough, Hants, England

Post by MatsP » Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:35 am

Dan,

I completely agree - this is an inferior way to of communication - and I make no appologies for living in a wealthy part of the world where we have a lot of (unneccesary) luxury compared to a country like Nicaragua.

This is definitely a subject that is much better discussed in person, over a few beers (or glasses of wine or non-alcoholic, whatever you feel OK with).

Your point on "It's not helping the people" is a good one - and there's been many examples of that in history, for sure...

--
Mats

Bas Pels
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:17 am
Location: Nijmegen - the Netherlands

Post by Bas Pels » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:38 am

I can only agree with both of you, Mats and Dan, that a discussion over a glass of something is much better than through a computer.

The gfunny thing is, I think you above posts are in fact sides of the smae coin, bassed on'what I've read from both of you.

You (and I) worry about the new plans, because of the destruction of irreplaceble nature. This may partly be based on what we see every day in our own countries (where harldy any nature exists), but also based on what has happened in other developing countries.

How many people in Panama prosper because of the Chamel?

That is the other side of the coin: If these investments are made, will 'Pablo average' benefit from it? It will require a huge lot of money, which could be spend differently, and will destroy part (or all) the ecosystem in the Lake Nicaragua. This destruction will for instance result in less fish on the markets.

So, referring to Dans first posting, I hope the plans will be made thinking of 'pablo average' his wallet :wink:

Bas

Dan Woodland
CichlidRoom Expert
Posts: 3050
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:49 am

Post by Dan Woodland » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:27 am

If I'm ever in jolly old England or the Netherlands I'll stop by for a refreshing alcoholic beverage and you do the same if you find yourself trolling around the US of A. I'm sure we can solve all the worlds problems over a few. Dan

Bas Pels
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:17 am
Location: Nijmegen - the Netherlands

Post by Bas Pels » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:58 pm

Perhaps more than a few, bult we will solve them (or drown them :oops: ) :mrgreen:

User avatar
Tom@geckolounge
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 12:03 pm
Location: Belmont - California
Contact:

Post by Tom@geckolounge » Sat Dec 30, 2006 4:36 am

Just came across this topic. Does anyone know the status of the canal project?

If a country is too poor to construct such a monster project themselves, they will find a specialised financial consulting company that works with them to attract private equity, or try to partner with other governments/blocks of trading countries, and/or attract world bank money.
Hopefully they do it with a "what is good for the people of the country" mentality, as this project can be a liability for the next century, and generations to come. Having a smartly financed channel in your backyard could generate the investment power to transform the entire region. Unfortunately though, most of the time it only creates wealth for the few elitist involved, and their Swiss bankers, keeping the region/people in debt.

JuanD15
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:50 pm
Location: Gastonia

Re: Dangerous project over Lake Nicaragua

Post by JuanD15 » Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:31 pm

if i'm not wrong as i was watching Colombian news i heard that they are working on the Panama Canal to make it wider and it already started so i'm pretty sure they aren't going to make that Nica Canal but i can be wrong so if anyone knows more about this let us know!
"WE live on a world made of lies not in China"
By Juan Damelines

Pleco & Geos Fan!!!

Bas Pels
Posts: 2246
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 9:17 am
Location: Nijmegen - the Netherlands

Re: Dangerous project over Lake Nicaragua

Post by Bas Pels » Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:47 am

As the eventual Nicaragua chanel would compete the Panama chanal, naturally the Panama chanel would prevent it from ever being made.

However, that will not automatically mean the Nicaragua chanel will not be made

Post Reply

Return to “Cichlid Conservation”