I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

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Jim Cumming
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I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Jim Cumming » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:06 pm

About a month ago, one of my male 'melanurus' started to develop a condition called "ducklips". His jaw locked and his lips proceeded to be pushed out from swelling in the area. Also he developed a swelling on the forehead right between the eyes that got worse over time. I fished him out about a week after I noticed the initial symptoms (I know, I shouldn't have delayed!!) and isolated him in a 25G tank. I treated him for Columnaris (flexobacter) using Kanamycin and Furan-2 (a recommended combination), dropping the water temperature to about 74 F, and over the course of a couple of weeks of treatment, the swelling in the mouth area gradually decreased and he resumed normal breathing (and started to eat again). The "pimple" seemed to reduce in size as well, but then erupted, and opened. I continued with some Kanamycin for a bit, but there was no real change, other than the area began to redden. In the center is a white substance. So I treated with salt and a pimafix-melafix combination. But it still looks like it's not healing over at all. Any suggestions??? I really need help on this one. I've included some pics taken today. Thanks.
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Dan Woodland
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Dan Woodland » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:30 pm

I've seen this before, in some H. beani I once had.

A Furanace or Furan 2 bath might help... be sure to move the fish or clear any other meds you have been using before "adding" this. Good luck, Dan

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Jim Cumming
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Jim Cumming » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:23 pm

Thanks Dan. I've decided to go with the Pimafix-Melafix combo (to give the fish a break from the "heavy duty" meds) along with some salt in the water for a few more days. Lots of water changes too and as long as he's feeding, I'm hopeful he'll improve. I think this is a secondary infection so if it gets worse, I might go back to kanamycin and Furan-2. Do you think there's any place for metronidazole here? (HITH??)
Jim
"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them".
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Dan Woodland
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Dan Woodland » Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:51 pm

No, definitely not HITH. I don't think metro is needed, you already have meds for that type of issue.

Curious if you feed live or frozen something or other to this fish. After I lost my 13" beani mail to this sort of thing I stopped feeding live/frozen foods from unknown sources and have not had a recurrence... but that may be a coincidence.

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Jim Cumming
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Jim Cumming » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:37 pm

Thanks Dan.
My larger Paraneetroplus species get a variety of pellet foods, mostly vegetable based. No live or frozen foods have ever been fed to them. Coincidentally at the same time, a P. sp Coatzacoalcos male started to show similar symptoms along with a pop eye. The eruption on the nose was centered in a nostril and because of the opening allowing for discharge, so it didn't flare up as badly. I treated it the same as my 'melanurus' and the popeye and eruption have just about cleared up. The eye's corneal covering actually ballooned out and ruptured but unbelievably, it seems to be healing well. Just a slight cloudiness to the eye. The fish doesn't appear to be blinded from the trauma. I'm suspecting that the nitrate levels may have been too high. I've increased the frequency of the water changes in that tank and so far, no issues with any other fish in there.
Jim
"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them".
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Dan Woodland
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Dan Woodland » Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:16 pm

I'm not saying you are but... a friend of mine had that same situation with Popeye and nasty "lesions". Turns out his was caused by over feeding a very high protein pelleted food. Or at least it stopped when he made the food/amount change. His problem was persisted and reared it's ugly head several times after the initial treatments and perceived cure.

He stopped feeding at my behest during the treatment phase because his fish were so stressed I suggested he not feed even though they were "eager" to eat.

Good luck, I'd hate to see you loose that fish.

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Jim Cumming
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Jim Cumming » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:40 am

Thanks for the advice Dan. Much appreciated.
"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them".
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Jim Cumming
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Jim Cumming » Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:52 pm

The lesion seems to be getting worse. It is opening up more and filled with a white substance (puss?). The redness around the opening is also increasing. There is a tiny hole in the center of the white mass. I have been using a Pimafix/Melafix combo for the last couple of days,and adding salt. I'm also doing partial water changes. Here's a couple of pics.
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"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them".
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Lee Nuttall
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Lee Nuttall » Tue Dec 18, 2012 2:39 am

Hi,

Looks very nasty.

Are you sure that we are not looking at advanced stages of a tumor? If this is the case, then unfortunatley it will be too late to save the fish. :(

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Jim Cumming
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Jim Cumming » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:33 am

Thanks for your input, Lee. I'll keep working at it despite what you suggest may be true.
Jim
"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them".
- Albert Einstein

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Jim Cumming
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Jim Cumming » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:41 am

I want to thank every one for their advice on possible causes and treatments for my ailing 'melanurus'. After having tried a number of different medications and treatments (which unfortunately didn't seem to counter the infection on the head), I did what a member from the UK suggested based on his 42 years of keeping large CA and SA cichlids - use metronidazole (assume it is HITH) - and it's working !!! I've included pics of my fish's latest appearance. The redness has disappeared and the opening and swelling size is reducing.. He is getting his color back and eating. Again, I can't thank all of you enough for your help. And thanks Graham for your "golden" advice. Cheers and a happy holiday season to all.
Jim
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Lee Nuttall
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Lee Nuttall » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:10 am

That's good news, glad you've finally diagnosed the problem.

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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish

Post by Dan Woodland » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:16 pm

Kudos to Graham.

Glad you got it sorted out.

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Jim Cumming
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Re: I Don't Want To Lose This Fish - Update.

Post by Jim Cumming » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:48 pm

Well things are continuing to get better for my male 'melanurus'. I'm still treating with metronidazole and will be for two more days. I have also some melafix/pimafix in there along with some salt to discourage the fungus growth that is present on the wound opening (you can just barely see it in the side view-most of it has fallen away). He's eating well and quite responsive. Looking good!!
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"The problems that exist in the world today cannot be solved by the level of thinking that created them".
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