Tilapia bythobates or Tilapia snyderae

Discussion about cichlids from Africa other than Rift Lake
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dan
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Tilapia bythobates or Tilapia snyderae

Post by dan » Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:07 pm

i've got a group of snyderae and recently saw what was said to be T. bythobates. frankly, i can see absolutely no difference. what am i missing?

dan

Bas Pels
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Post by Bas Pels » Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:00 pm

I hope this topic is misposted - Tilapia is found in CA, but still I do hope Tilaia remains an African cichlid (most likely other African cichlids) :lol:

Dave Schumacher
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Post by Dave Schumacher » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:07 pm

The two species do look very similar. The biggest difference is size. Tilapia bythobates reaches a length of 15cm, where Tilapia snyderae only attain a size of 6cm in the wild. They grow slightly larger in aquariums though.
Dave Schumacher
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dan
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Post by dan » Tue Nov 14, 2006 5:43 pm

thanks very much dave.

dan

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Darrell Ullisch
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Post by Darrell Ullisch » Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:59 pm

Dan, the problem is that the first fish that came in were identified as snyderae, but get much larger than the wild fish, so there may be a lot of misidentified fish running around out there. I don't know for sure whether the fish currently available are or aren't real snyderae , despite the insistence of several people that THEIR fish is the real snyderae.

I'm also doubtful that the fish is actually bythobates, as there are two more species, bakossiorum and gutturosa, both of which only reach 9cm in the wild and also look very much like the fish in the hobby right now. Since bythobates prefers depths over 8m, and the other three prefer depths less than 1.5m, I have to question the ID of any Lake Bemin Tilapia species in the hobby. The other factor is that Lamboj reports bythobates as an open spawner, while the other three are all known to use caves, like the fish in the hobby.

The actual differences supposedly have to do with gill raker counts, but I don't have any information about the numbers. Personally, I believe the splitters have gone unnecessarily crazy with these Lake Bemin species. If anyone knows where I can get the Stiassny, et al, 1992 paper, I'd like to look at it more closely.
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

dan
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Post by dan » Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:31 pm

thanks so much ... great information.

dan

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Tom Williams
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Post by Tom Williams » Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:00 am

Snyderae has a shorter lower jaw when compared with the other Bermin Tilapia and also a deep red bellied female morph. I again am dubious over whether this is enough to define a species we'll see in the future..
BTW i picked up some Snyderae from Anton (Lamboj) which grew to nearly 6 inches totoal length in the male. Next to Byhtobates they did have a shorter lower jaw so I belive that Snyderae does grow significantly larger in captivity than the type.

BTW they brred like rats! typical Tilapia.

dstuer
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Post by dstuer » Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:35 am

Image
This is one of the fry of what I bought of Tilapia bythobates from a very reliable breeder. The male parent grew to almost 7" the female about 5". When I see them at small sizes next to each other I can't tell them apart. They are like rabbits.

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