Cryptoheros sp. what?

Discussion about cichlids from Central America

Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Piotr Koba » Wed May 25, 2011 4:16 pm

I ordered recently 6 C. septemfasciatus for my 180Ltr. tank. I was amazed as they were to be my first CA cichlids, but... you can see what I actually got:
Male (there are 2 others, but smaller, and not-so-nice):
Image
Image
Image
Females:
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Males clearly seem to be C. myrnae (not a problem), but females do confuse me. :? there are not many good pics of them on the Net so it's hard to do a comparison for me. Male on the picture is quite big, around 7cm, while "females" are like 3-4cm.

Any help would be much appreciated; I know pictures are not good enough to do 100% ID, I promise I'll provide some more when they loose their shyness.
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Piotr
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Bas Pels » Thu May 26, 2011 1:45 am

The males are very similar to Cr myrnae indeed. The females remind me more of Cr septemfasciatus

However, as far as I know, the population in the European hobby of Cr septemfasciatus is most likely a hybrid between the real septemfasciatus and myrnae: This population dates back from before the species Cr myrnae was known.

Any red Cryptoheros was cnsidered septemfasciatus, and put inte the gene pool. I can imagine your fishes are brothers and sisters, and just happen to consist of males looking more like myrnae and females looking more like septemfasciatus, but in reality they are something between

I'm not 100 % certain abouth the hybrid theory, but I've kept septemfasciatus - that is a red Cryptoheros gfotten under hat name - for generations now, and some look much more like myrnae than others
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Piotr Koba » Thu May 26, 2011 5:24 pm

Thank you Bas for an informative post (as always). So they'll stay here until I find a pure species suitable for my tank.
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Meeki67 » Sat May 28, 2011 4:39 pm

C. Semtepmfasciatum in Europe look like this :
Image
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby michi tobler » Sun May 29, 2011 5:48 pm

Piotr,
these are clearly C. myrnae, also your "females", not hybrids or C. septemfasciatus. However, I'm not sure whether your females are females. Females have a conspicuous spot in the dorsal. That spot may still develop in fish as small as yours, but they may also be immature males.
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Piotr Koba » Mon May 30, 2011 4:14 pm

Oh Michi that would be great news. As you say so, I'll take some additional pics tomorrow, 'cos they are not shy at all now. And about "females" well that's as maybe, but they have very different body shape from males, especially when comparing biggest male & biggest "female". Possibly lack of the dorsal spot might be caused by their poor quality? (Czech bred I suppose)
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Piotr Koba » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:09 pm

A few more photos, might be helpful
Dominant male:
Image
Image
Subdominant:
Image
And the biggest female:
Image
Image
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby MonteSS » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:38 pm

Beautiful fish.

....Bill
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Piotr Koba » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:06 am

Thought better pics might be helpful for ID. So here they are:
Dominant Male
Image
Image
"Females"
Image
Image
Image
Whole group
Image
And the tank
Image
Cheers
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Bas Pels » Thu Jun 09, 2011 7:12 am

michi tobler wrote:Piotr,
these are clearly C. myrnae, also your "females", not hybrids or C. septemfasciatus. However, I'm not sure whether your females are females. Females have a conspicuous spot in the dorsal. That spot may still develop in fish as small as yours, but they may also be immature males.
Cheers, m


Michi

Do you perhaps think the fishes sold as Cr septemfasciatus are Cr myrnae too? Quite a long time ago a picture was posted -
I think it came from France - on this forum of a grey fish, which would be Cr septemfasciatus. It did have quite a few spots on its body, and now your reaction - what do you think?
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby michi tobler » Thu Jun 09, 2011 9:25 pm

Bas, what do you mean by "quite a few spots"? Could you still find the post with the according picture?
All I am saying is that Piotr's fish look like the C. myrnae I brought back in 2002 and the ones I currently have. Actually, sometimes I am bluffed by the similarity of the species with C. nanoluteus (in females), rather than with septekmfaciatus. But Piotr's fish clearly look different from septemfasciatus (see viewtopic.php?f=4&t=612 for species differences and http://www.sulfide-life.info/mtobler/im ... 7_SWAN.pdf for a discussion of variation in color patterns). I thought I posted a detailed account of the habitat in this forum before, but I sure can't find it.
Cheers, m
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Bas Pels » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:41 am

I will try to find it, but not today :(
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Thomas Andersen » Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:26 am

michi tobler wrote:I thought I posted a detailed account of the habitat in this forum before, but I sure can't find it.
Cheers, m


I think it's this one, but the photos are gone: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=575
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Re: Cryptoheros sp. what?

Postby Piotr Koba » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:08 pm

Ah, that's a pity.
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