Heros

[Lisachromis]

Ok, got a question!

I understood the turquoise severum to be H. appendiculatus. I also knew of another species H. efasciatus. Some sources seem to think that they are the same fish.

Are they? If so, does anyone have the paper that proves it?

I want to keep on top of this and don't want to make the issue more confused if I don't need to.

[Grange]

H. appendiculatus [S. Kullander-1986, R. Stawikowski-1995] = H. efasciatus [S. Kullander-2003]

My old topic
http://www.cichlidae.info/phpBB2/viewto ... ight=heros .

[Grange]

My question about Heros species on Cichlid Systematics Discussion List

http://listserv.nic.museum/cgi-bin/wa?A ... ichlid-l#2

[Lisachromis]

Appropriate post copied from the 1st post of the above link with emails taken off.

Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:49:21 +0200
Reply-To: Cichlid Systematics Discussion List
Sender: Cichlid Systematics Discussion List
From: Eugene Granovsky
Subject: Guyanese severum
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

According fishbase.org & Eschmeyer's Catalog we have four Heros species
with such distribution:

Heros severus from Orinoco River basin, in the upper Orinoco River drainage
in Colombia and Venezuela; Amazon River basin, in the upper Negro River
basin;
Heros efasciatus (common name - Peruvian turquoise severum) from Rio
Amazonas basin, in tributaries of the Rio Ucayali and Rio Amazonas in Peru,
and Rio Solimoes-Amazonas in Brazil;
Heros notatus from Rio Amazonas basin, in the Rio Negro, Brazil;
Heros spurius from Amazon River basin, in the Guaporé River drainage;
... and no one from Guyana.

But the most wild severums in aquariums are typically imported from Guyana.
So what species the Guyanese severum is ?

Thanks in advance,
Eugene

[Lisachromis]

Ok, so then what's the 'typical' green or gold severum found in the hobby then?
Heros severus?

[Grummie2]

I asked this question in the 'General cichlids' section and got no reply, maybe it's a really difficult one to answer? The true Heros severus is a mouthbrooder but I haven't heard anyone say their 'normal' green or golds do this.

[Bas Pels]

I know someone in the Netherlands who bred mouthbrooding Heros. Unfortunately I can not remember seeing any picture of them. However, they have obviously been imported, and the young are offered for sale.

Bas

[Grange]

1. Well, the 'typical' aquarium 'green' severum is the descendant of wild manauses severum (Manaus, Rio Negro) and some others Amazonian morphs.
The 'typical' aquarium 'green' severum isn't uniform and may be green, brown-green or olive-yellow.
And I spoke with Heiko Bleher when he visited our country. He told me that in nature severum has many color forms. Each place - a little different colors. The color forms don't cross.
I think that 'typical' aquarium severum with varied palette is a hybrid of different nature forms.

2. So the 'typical' aquarium severum came from the Manaus area, Rio Negro. And I wrote previously that there are three taxonomy systems of Heros genus:

a) KULLANDER (1986) - only H. severus (Amazon, Orinoko, Guyana) and H. appendiculatus (Peru).

b) STAWIKOWSKI & WERNER (1995, 1998) - Heros from lower course of Rio-Negro is H. efaciatus. This fish on photos (for example S36610-3 in "Aqualog Southamerican Cichlids III") is really similar to the aquarium severum. And the fish imported from British Guyana is H. notatus. And the type species mouthbrooder H. severus has a narrow area in Venezuela. And the Peruvian turquoise severum is H. appendiculatus.

с) KULLANDER (CLoFFSCA, 2003) - H. efaciatus is opposite the new valid name of the Peruvian turquoise severum, H. notatus comes from Rio-Negro. The nominal species H. severus (common, non-mouthbrooder) has wide distribution and may claim to be an ancestor of aquarium severum. Heros-mouthbrooder and the Guyanese Heros remain undesired species.

3. My opinion. I believe that there are 4 species of Heros genus:
a) common severum - I call it H. severus;
b) Peruvian turquoise severum - H. appendiculatus;
c) larvophyl severum - Heros sp. "Mouthbrooder";
d) Guyanese severum - Heros sp. "Guyana".
All other forms are geographic and color morphs.

(I am sorry for my bad English)

[Grange]

Heros sp. "Mouthbrooder"

Unfortunately I can not remember seeing any picture of them. However, they have obviously been imported, and the young are offered for sale.

photo: D. Matthäus.

Also there were a few photos in "Aqualog Southamerican Cichlids III"

[Grummie2]

I have bred the 'mouthbrooder', it was a fascinating display, I can recommend this species for its interesting behaviour. Eelke van der Zwaag wrote an account of his spawning success in the BCA 'Cichlidae' booklet (and kindly used my pics for illustration). I think the 'common' green and golds are 'hybrids' of several 'species' or geographical morphs, created before a reasonable understanding of the wide variation in this genus became known.

[Estelle]

The mouthbrooder is the real severus.

As described species, there are:

- Heros severus (the mouthbrooder)



- Heros notatus (hardly never imported)


- Heros efasciatus (maybe the one you call severus, open spawner. It's often called "green severum" but it's not !)



To those species you can add a few undescribed species, and there are probably some more (unless they belong to one of the three above)


- Heros cf. efasciatus (coming from French Guyane)



- Heros sp. "Guyana" (often called notatus but it's not, from ex-British Guyana)



- Heros sp. "Rotkeil" (from Peru, in France we consider it as an efasciatus)

[Grange]

The mouthbrooder is the real severus.

Heckel's original description does not give exact answer.

Heros efasciatus (maybe the one you call severus

Do you mean the Peruvian turquoise severum?
[img]http://www.american.cichlids.ru/images/ ... atus_m_(sj).jpg[/img]

maybe the one you call severus, open spawner. It's often called "green severum" but it's not !

Well... Let's ID this fish. My "green severum".
[img]http://www.american.cichlids.ru/images/ ... s_aq_m_(sj).jpg[/img]

Heros sp. "Guyana" (often called notatus but it's not, from ex-British Guyana)

This week Cichla (member of this forum) sent me good article where he show that Heros sp. "Guyana" is H. notatus.

<...>coming from French Guyane <... >
from ex-British Guyana

There are three Heros morphs in Guyana:

1) Heros sp. "Guyana", most known.

2) Heros cf. efasciatus

3) Heros sp. “Franz-Guyana”, mouthbrooder (on photo, source - Aqualog)

[Philippe Burnel]

Franz guyana... I think you mean French Guyana is not a mouthbrooder !

[Fabien]

there is a difference between:

- Guyana or Guiana (the old British Guyana) where you find Heros sp. "Guyana" (= Heros cf. notatus "Guyana" = Heros aff. notatus "Guyana")

- And the French Guyana where you can find Heros cf. efasciatus = Heros aff. efasciatus "French guyana"= Heros sp. “Franz-Guyana” = Heros sp. "blue" = Heros sp. "Comté" etc...
which is not a mouthbrooder


Heros cf. efasciatus from Sinnamary system (costal pound) in French Guyana

Eugene, your fish might be another Heros efasciatus form

[Grange]

Eugene, your fish might be another Heros efasciatus form

So many various species are called as the Heros efasciatus or Heros cf. efasciatus now...

there is a difference between...

When I wrote ''Guyana" I had in mind all three countries: Guyana (ex. British Guyana), Surinam(ex. Dutch Guiana) and French Guiana.

Our fish importer spoke with his contractor from Guyana. This guy said him that he can supply three Guyanese undescribed Heros species. Are you sure that your Heros cf. efasciatus and Aqualog's Heros sp. "Franz-Guyana" are the same fish?

Aqualog's male:

[Dan Woodland]

Excellant pictures everyone. Dan

[Philippe Burnel]

Our fish importer spoke with his contractor from Guyana. This guy said him that he can supply three Guyanese undescribed Heros species. Are you sure that your Heros cf. efasciatus and Aqualog's Heros sp. "Franz-Guyana" are the same fish?

did you have a look to Fabien's location ?

[Fabien]

I live indeed in French Guiana.

And I can say that all the Heros whom I captured here (in 5 River systems out of 6 where this species/form live) may be the same fish than the one on thiis photograph. They are identified like H. efasciatus by the authors of “the Atlas of fish of French Guiana” published by the National Museum of Natural History of Paris. But it is a fish more lengthened and less higher of body than the other Heros efasciatus, it is for what there are the other denominations like Heros cf. efasciatus.

[Ken Boorman]

ummmm..... Fabien, which is the correct spelling for where you live please? French Guiana or French Guyana? Thanks

Ken

[Philippe Burnel]

correct spelling is : Guyane française