Some news on Plankton-eater M'buna

[Florent]

Tawil, P. (2011): Description of a new cichlid species from Lake Malawi, with reexamination of Cynotilapia afra (Günther, 1893) and Microchromis zebroides Johnson, 1975.
Cybium, 35 (3): 201-211.


Abstract. - A reexamination of the type specimens of the cichlid genera Cynotilapia and Microchromis from Lake
Malawi is given, revealing significant differences between them, and confirming the validity of Microchromis. Microchromis
zebroides, type species of the genus, is reexamined with additional material. Microchromis aurifrons, a new species
is described. It differs from the type species of the genus, with which it lives sympatrically in the lake, by wider
melanic pattern on the flanks and absence of such coloration on the brow of adults. The distinction between Cynotilapia
and Microchromis and the relationships with the bicuspid-toothed genus Maylandia, of which Microchromis is possibly a
plankton-eater specialized offshoot, are debated.

[taeniopareius]

Any Microchromis pic?

[Mark Smith]

Hi Patrick

Could you post a photo of this new Microchromis species?

[Nuchal Man]

I'd love to get a copy of the paper if anyone has it.

Thanks,

Sam Borstein

[Florent]

In my opinion (but I still have to read the description)

Microchromis zebroides = the fish known as C. afra (type locality Likoma)

Microchromis aurifrons = Cynotilapia sp. Mbamba

Cynotilapia afra = ?

[Philippe Burnel]

I'd love to get a copy of the paper if anyone has it.

Thanks,

Sam Borstein

even Patrick has not the paper today....

[Philippe Burnel]

Here is a post written by Florent on the french forum :

Pour trouver le nouveau Microchromis il faut déjà se dire que l'on ne sait pas ce qu'est C. afra.
To find the new Microchromis sp, we must agree to the fact that we don't know exactly what is C. afra

En en très résumé Microchromis = Maylandia qui mange du plancton.
Microchromis = plancton feedind Maylandia

M. zebroides = afra à dorsale jaune ( Likoma c'est sur et peut être Jalo, cobué qui est extrêmement jaune )
M. zebroides = "yellow to afra" (Likoma and maybe jalo, Cobwe which is extremly yellow)

le spécimen en photo est de Mara Point
Th following fish comes from Mara Point

cynotilapia afra mara point north(1).jpg (11.34 KiB) Viewed 1928 times

M. aurifrons = afra avec plus de bandes (sur l'arrière du corps) ou des bandes plus larges que zebroides et un coloration de la tête sans marque mélanique sur le haut. Alors je dirais que c'est C. sp Mbamba !

M. aurifrons = afra with much more verticales bars (in the posterior part of the body) or larger bands than in M. zebroides and a head coloration without any melanic patern on the top. So I'd say it's C. sp Mbamba !

sp-mamba1.jpg (21.28 KiB) Viewed 1928 times

Patrick answered :

And the winner is... Florent.

[nick a]

Frankly, I'm not really understanding the need to 'resurrect' the genus Microchromis.
A plankton feeding Maylandia----really?


M. zebroides= C. afra with a yellow dorsal---I can't wait to read the paper & sincerely hope that we have more than this to go on.

"M. aurifrons = afra with much more verticales bars (in the posterior part of the body) or larger bands than in M. zebroides and a head coloration without any melanic patern on the top. So I'd say it's C. sp Mbamba !"

What I'd say as well----and I'd add that we ALREADY have a fairly well-functioning universal 'understanding' of what we are discussing when using this existing terminology---why this strange desire to take this 'understanding' into confusion?

[Florent]

When I wrote "M. zebroides = C. afra with yellow dorsal", you have to understand : "M. zebroides is the fish we use to call C. afra with yellow dorsal". Actually the fish known as C. afra isn't this species ! Just like when we call Sciaenochromis alhi , the S. fryeri or P. boadzulu, the Protomelas taeniolatus from Namalenje.

The publication is the description of an undescribed species , Cynotilapia sp. Mbamba as Microchromis aurifrons , why do you feel confused by that ?

[nick a]

No...we used to call C.afra with yellow dorsals nothing but locale variants of C. afra that happened to have yellow dorsals as one of many variable and distinct color patterns.

This site notes
"Microchromis: Described species included (0):
considered a junior synonym of
Cynotilapia Regan, 1922


Johnson's description only specifies that his holotype was collected "off Likoma Island" and also notes only that there is "white edging on dorsal, ventral and anal fins". The allotype description mentions 'small band of white on dorsal fin". No where can I find even the word YELLOW used in these descriptions.

You posted, "M. zebroides = "yellow to afra" (Likoma and maybe jalo, Cobwe which is extremly yellow)", How did we make this leap?????

This is a sample photo of what is known as a C. afra Likoma in the USA.......

a sample photo of what is known as a C. afra Cobwe in the USA

This is a sample photo of what is known as a C. afra Jalo Reef in the USA.......

Is the pigment in their dorsals what causes them to be moved not only to another species.....but another genus????? With the description of Microchromis not even mentioning a yellow pigment?

More about moving C. sp mbamba to this "microchromis" later.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Philippe Burnel]

Firts of all.... wait for the PDF file before judging
2/ Never forget that Cynotilapia afra is an unknown species
3/ Here is the true Hemichromis afer (from the original description). Do you think that it's the sp you know as C. afra ?

Cyno_afra_type.jpg (25.32 KiB) Viewed 1931 times

so.... wait and see

[Juan Artigas]

Please guys, do NOT link pictures to posts, rather attach them, we have MANY threads lost because image links have been broken. Thanks!

[Florent]

Is the pigment in their dorsals what causes them to be moved not only to another species.....but another genus????? With the description of Microchromis not even mentioning a yellow pigment?

You are rigth my post make confusion just forget the yellow, look at the Philippe's picture. Hemichromis afer is the type of Cynotilapia afra

Do you agree that the drawing doesn't look like the fish we used to call C. afra ?

[Juan Artigas]

And I just looked at a Hemichromis afer syntype picture and has no bars!

[Philippe Burnel]

When I saw the drawning above (2002) it make me think about a fish of the "acei group".

[nick a]

Philippe...yes I must learn to bite my tongue until the paper is available

However, a few thoughts.....to say " Cynotilapia afra is an unknown species" is somewhat disingenuous, isn't it?
Perhaps the readings of the texts and plates through Regan are not exactly replete with clarity (said in tone of extreme sarcasm), but somehow the unwashed masses have come to a clear, well defined and universal understanding. Show the middle picture to any one around the world with any experience of these fish, and you will receive a significantly common response ---down to the collection location...C. afra Cobwe. That it may be poorly scientifically described does not mean it is unknown.

As far as that plate.......I agree that it adds confusion rather than clarity. Male or female? Collection point ...unknown {Boulenger says, Lake Nyassa--but neither Gunther nor Regan say anything}
As for me, looking at these old plates...sometimes I see exactly ...such as the "H". livingstonii and sometimes like the "C". callipterus (or the 'afer') I would be hard pressed to translate into a full 3-d color version in my imagination.

[Philippe Burnel]

However, a few thoughts.....to say " Cynotilapia afra is an unknown species" is somewhat disingenuous, isn't it?

and why ? What we know as C. afra could be an other species. The true afra is the one on the drawning above, nothing else.
Remember many other species misidentifieds (S. ahli is a good example, and there are so many others. Why not afra ?)

masses have come to a clear, well defined and universal understanding

Maybe everybody is wrong ! People know what some others want they know !

[nick a]

Just beginning to digest the information.

The first thing I note is from Johnson 1975.
Holotype..........Teeth:....Two rows
Allotype...........Teeth:....Two rows

"The only other Malawi cichlid to which M. zebroides bears any resemblance is Cynotilapia afra. However, Regan's description of C. afra (P. afra Boulenger) notes that the teeth are in three rows...."


The new paper by Tawil now describes M. zebroides as having "Teeth...2-3 rows......"

If 3 vs 2 rows was considered a distinguishing characteristic by Johnson in his original description, how are we able to use Microchromis for a fish with that feature now?

[Philippe Burnel]

That's really a shortcut of Tawil's publication !
You'd better to read it.... completly


Philippe

[nick a]

As I am.....

I see mention of Ribbink et al (1983) in the "Generic distinction" subsection of Tawil's publication. Where does this drawing from Ribbink et al (1983) fit into this new arrangement?
http://malawicichlids.com/mw09000a.htm



Here is an exerpt from an article I wrote years ago on C. afra Likoma:
"I discovered that there is a very limited amount of information available on the internet on this particular fish. Many of us have had the experience of slogging through the murky depths of confusion trying to sort out the reality between trade names and scientific names and of navigating the twisty turns of correctly understanding what the ‘standard’ or prototypical description of how location variants of a species should look. However, I was able to determine that what little information is available is very consistent. To the best of my knowledge, all US importers selling these fish got them from the same source. Additionally, all the information I’ve been able to find from the European market is identical. There is an excellent write up with pictures here http://ciklidi.net/readarticle.php?article_id=44 , but you’d better brush up on your Slovenian! Knowing that respected individuals such as Philippe Burnel in France, who many of you may know from cichlidae.com or from his site burnel.club.fr or Walter Deproost in Belgium, who is a long-time cichlid fanatic and the Honorary President of the Belgian Cichlid Assoc. are using the same name and showing pictures of the same fish in association with that name, gave me the all-clear to go ahead and purchase these afras. Based on this at least minimum level of universality of identification, I have a high degree of expectation that this unique variety will be capable of sustaining its individuality and that all discussions (even multi-national ones) will be centered on a common acceptance as to the true characteristics which define this very attractive variant."

Hopefully you'll see that I mean no disrespect with these questions. I only seek to understand.