Australoheros behind bars?

[Willem Heijns]

One of the diagnostic characters of Australoheros species is the number of abdominal bars. In preparation of an article about Australoheros I have looked at many pictures of Australoheros species, but I could not find any clearly showing the location of the four or three abdominal bars in species of this enigmatic genus. Who can help me?

[cichla]

Hi Willem, Dear all,
the ''unique breeding coloration characteristic in the interruption of the abdominal bars in their middorsal part'' (1) is a diagnostic character state for Australoheros. The number of bars is not unique. See: ''Most species of Australoheros develop four abdominal bars (vs. three)''(1). 'Most' implies - in my view - that there are members of the genus which are showing an other pattern.
Greeetings, IS

Would be interesting to see a photo of this particular Australoheros.

(1) Říĉan, O.  & S. O. Kullander (2006): Character- and tree-based delimitation of species in the 'Cichlasoma' facetum group (Teleostei, Cichlidae) with the description of a new genus. J. Zool. Syst. Evol. Res. 44: 136-152.

[Willem Heijns]

To illustrate the problem: Unlike their statement in the paper Ingo is referring to (most species develop four abdominal bars), Rican & Kullander (2008) say that facetus is the only Australoheros to develop four abdominal bars (with the exception of minuano and some specimens of forquilha). So guarani, charrua, scitulus, tembe and kaaygua all have only three abdominal bars. But I am still left with my question: what is the position of these bars? Do they (all) run from dorsal to ventral end of the body? Do the dorsal parts all end at the dorsal fin (or anterior of the first dorsal spine)?

Any thoughts from your part, Felipe?

[Rico Morgenstern]

What is meant with abdominal bars is illustrated in fig. 18c in Kullander & Rican (2008). The first (or, using Kullander's counting method, the last) one is immedially behind the gill cover, above the the pectoral fin base, and not always well developed as a bar, the last is that before the one bearing the lateral spot.

[Willem Heijns]

Thanks Rico. In the meantime I found that Australoheros features in Rican 2005, where the ontogeny of the bars in several cichlids is explained. Bars are numbered from the caudal anteriad and the bar carrying the lateral spot is usually bar 4. So the three abdominal bars (occurring in most Australoheros species) are numbered 5, 6 and 7. Australoheros species showing 4 abdominal bars have bar 5 (the one right in front of the lateral spot) separated to form two distinct bars. In Rico's picture: bars 3 and 4. As can be seen in the same picture it is very hard to tell how these bars run dorsally. They seem to split and also connect to other bars. This pattern is highly variable within and between species, making it difficult to use as diagnostic character.

[Rico Morgenstern]

Few of the offspring of the figured fish, which I consider to represent the true A. facetus, had only three abdominal bars, or three at one side and four on the other, and many had the bars 3 and 4 incompletely separated. In this and other features they agree well with the characterization of this species by Rican & Kullander (2008), except that they have a yellowish (vs. grey) ground color when breeding.

[cichla]

Dear Rico, Dear Willem, dear all.
The ontogenetic and phylogenetic development of abdominal bar pattern is best explained in Rican & Kullander (2008). R&K: ''about 80% of specimens [of A. facetus] with four abdominal bars''. So it's no wonder, Rico, that ''few of the offspring had only three abdominal bars''. However, the yellowish (vs. gray) ground color of your specimens may indicate that these are not A. fecetus, but A. cf. facetus (see R&K, 2008, ''ground color yellowish to yellow ... A. cf. facetus'').
In 80-90% of specimens the abdominal bars are incompletely separated in their dorsal portion (R&K 2008). Willem, this might be the reason why it is ''very hard to tell how these bars run dorsally''.
Greetings, IS

[Rico Morgenstern]

However, the yellowish (vs. gray) ground color of your specimens may indicate that these are not A. fecetus, but A. cf. facetus (see R&K, 2008, ''ground color yellowish to yellow ... A. cf. facetus'').

That's true, but in all other features (body proportions, counts, bar pattern) my fish were identifiable as A. facetus rather than A. cf. facetus. May be the species shows some geographic variability in this respect.

[Willem Heijns]

Interesting how very complicated a diagnostic character can be. The term "incompletely separated" could not be more vague. Actually, Rican & Kullander never specified this as being in the dorsal portion of the bars, although it is more conspicuous there. To me this still leaves the question about the number of bars. Take bar 5 (the one in front of the lateral blotch. In some specimens this bar is split into two just below the inset of the dorsal fin. That would be an incompletely separated (or split) bar 5. Other specimens have this bar split right from the blotch on the midlateral stripe where it originates from. I've seen this referred to as "bar 5 divided". Still others have bar 5 completely split. This would be the condition (Rican 2005) with four abdominal bars (instead of three). I could give the same story for bar 7 (the anteriormost bar) This bar ends dorsally in front of the inset of the dorsal fin, but in some cases it is split giving a second dorsal ending just below the first dorsal spine. Etc., etc.
Can anyone help me count?

[cichla]

Yes, the anterior bars (abdominal bars) are (at least sometimes) difficult to count. I think this is not only in Australoheros the case. This is why Kullander (1983) introduced the numbering of the bars from the caudal fin to the head.The caudal fin base spot (bar 1 in Kullander & Silfvergrip 1991, and 1p in Rican et al. 2005) is a conspicuous blotch or bar and hence a good anchor to start counting. Well, I know it doesnt help you much, Willem, but I think there is no easy resolution for your dilemma. It seems to be that the pattern of the abdominal bars are to variable in facetus & co.

[Fcantera]

Yes, the anterior bars (abdominal bars) are (at least sometimes) difficult to count. I think this is not only in Australoheros the case. This is why Kullander (1983) introduced the numbering of the bars from the caudal fin to the head.The caudal fin base spot (bar 1 in Kullander & Silfvergrip 1991, and 1p in Rican et al. 2005) is a conspicuous blotch or bar and hence a good anchor to start counting. Well, I know it doesnt help you much, Willem, but I think there is no easy resolution for your dilemma. It seems to be that the pattern of the abdominal bars are to variable in facetus & co.

Yes, I agree...to variable.
Sorry Willem...this is the first time I see this topic....and I am afraid that my english is far away from good to explain a few things (observations)...anyway...the only thing (new for you) that I can help you with is what I see when I collect them.
The color of the body (I am talking about the facetus from the holotype spot) "use" to be green to dark green with black bars, that's the most normal...
The place of the holotype, by the ocean, has hills all around...and the interesting thing is that most of the populations of facetus (or cf.facetus??) from the other side of the hills, shows both colors (clear yellow with black bars or green with black bars) ...and even red or yellow eyes (nothing to do with sex or breeding period).
Not much for help...I know....sorry again!

Pd; I dont know if Rican have seen all the other species of the Group? I mean "facetus" and not "scitulus"....I am talking about the populations from Rio Yaguarón, Rio Cuareim, Rio Tacuarembo and the smaller streams on the hills that goes to Rio Olimar??

[Willem Heijns]

No need to be sorry Felipe. For my article I would love to have some good pictures of facetus from the type locality. By the way, what do you consider to be the type locality? Also, could you provide a map showing all the rivers you mention? I assume you still have my e-mail address.

[Fcantera]

"Laguna del Diario", in Maldonado.
Yes I have your email!!, I leave to Norway on 2 days...will be back around the 10 of july.

[FEW]

Hi
I had the pleasure to collect A. facetus from the type locality with Felipe last November and have a pair outside in my pond.
Here’s a link to a paper on the type locality (Laguna del Diario) with a photo of A. facetus:
http://www.pecescriollos.de/media/docs/calvi_o_2007_localidad_tipo_de_darwin_en_maldonado_uruguay.pdf

PS. I also had the pleasure to attend a meeting last weekend here in Norway where Felipe treated us with Uruguayan style barbeque ...

[FEW]

Some photos from the A.facetus type locality (Laguna del Diario, Maldonado, UY):




Laguna del Diario is overgrown with Egeria densa and they try to keep it open by "harvesting":

[FEW]

Some photos of Australoheros facetus caught at Laguna del Diario in November 2010 (photos taken June 30th 2011)
I brought two pairs of them back home with me. They are quite rough against eachother and now only two remains.
I suspect the remaining to be males and that the two females were bullied to death as I did not have the possibility to give them a large enough tank...
They now go outside in a small pond and I had to fish them up yesterday to get some photos...
As I do not have a phototank the photos are not very good but I hope they show what the A. facetus from the type locality looks like.

This is the largest of the two:




The other one:

[dogofwar]

Great pictures from the "home" of the chanchito!

Matt

[Juan Artigas]

It seems they are enjoying the summer Norway weather! Beautiful fish

[Rico Morgenstern]

FEW, thank you for posting these pictures and the link!
If I compare the topotypical A. facetus with the fish I had, I find my identification supported. It may not be immedially evident from my photo, but the mood-depending color pattern of the Chanchito is very variable. My old male could change from grayish with a bluish or greenish tinge on the scales to chocolate-brown or almost blackish, the yellow coloration with more or less distinct vertical bars appeared in aggressive mood or during breeding. When I tried to photograph him, he always felt somewhat provoked, consequently he shows that pattern on all my photos.

[Fcantera]

Hi
I had the pleasure to collect A. facetus from the type locality with Felipe last November and have a pair outside in my pond.
Here’s a link to a paper on the type locality (Laguna del Diario) with a photo of A. facetus:
http://www.pecescriollos.de/media/docs/calvi_o_2007_localidad_tipo_de_darwin_en_maldonado_uruguay.pdf

PS. I also had the pleasure to attend a meeting last weekend here in Norway where Felipe treated us with Uruguayan style barbeque ...