HELP!!! I think i have the bloat!!!

[jzyjack]

all the mbuna stopped eating, acting listless, some appear to be gasping. water quality is good. lost an orange zebra the other day, now they are all behaving sickly. i treated with 'Clout' and removed my bio-media and carbon per directions. have bio-wheels soaking in aquarium water to hopefully save the bacteria colony. i also am leaving the lights out to reduce stress (except for the moon lights). i also raised the heat a little to about 78 F. to try to get their metabolism moving a little faster.

Am i doing the right things? is there anything else i should be doing?

thanx...

[MatsP]

What's your water tests showing:
nitrate
nitrite
ammonia
pH

Are the fish eating anything at all? If so, try feeding them something vegetable (spinach for example)...

--
Mats

[Lisachromis]

Water changes are always a good thing to do if your fish aren't up to par!

[Cumb Dunt]

Do a 50 percent water change daily until it goes away.

This has worked for me for virtually everything. Fin rot, lymphocystis, ich, "listlessness", "bloat", etc.

What are/were you feeding them?

In my experience, if you feed Mbuna any brine shrimp or worms, you're basically propping open the door for the dreaded bloat...

[jzyjack]

Do a 50 percent water change daily until it goes away.

This has worked for me for virtually everything. Fin rot, lymphocystis, ich, "listlessness", "bloat", etc.

What are/were you feeding them?

In my experience, if you feed Mbuna any brine shrimp or worms, you're basically propping open the door for the dreaded bloat...

thanx, i'm gonna start doing the bigger water changes. i've been feeding them nutramax spirulina flakes, omega 1 cichlid flakes, some cichlid pellets with spirulina in them, and maybe once a week i give them frozen bloodworms, chopped scallops or live guppies. i'm gonna cut out the worms. please pray for me. i'll post my water conditions later tonight when i get home, hopefully they're not all dead. say a prayer for me a and the fishes.

[Cumb Dunt]

Do a 50 percent water change daily until it goes away.

This has worked for me for virtually everything. Fin rot, lymphocystis, ich, "listlessness", "bloat", etc.

What are/were you feeding them?

In my experience, if you feed Mbuna any brine shrimp or worms, you're basically propping open the door for the dreaded bloat...

thanx, i'm gonna start doing the bigger water changes. i've been feeding them nutramax spirulina flakes, omega 1 cichlid flakes, some cichlid pellets with spirulina in them, and maybe once a week i give them frozen bloodworms, chopped scallops or live guppies. i'm gonna cut out the worms. please pray for me. i'll post my water conditions later tonight when i get home, hopefully they're not all dead. say a prayer for me a and the fishes.

Well, I think I have isolated your problem

Bloodworms/scallops and live guppies?

Not such good foods for Mbuna. They eat aufwuchs primarily in the wild, I am told, which are essentially just scrapings of algae and other microorganisms off the surfaces of rocks.

Despite their aggressive nature I would by no means classify them as carnivores.

Spirulina flake and vegetable mixes are what I like to feed mine. Mbuna have long intestines to deal with the high degree of vegetable matter in their diets and foods high in animal proteins can sometimes stop them up pretty good. Hence "the dreaded Malawi bloat".

Add a little epsom salt to your water (MgSO4) in the amount of 1 tsp/gallon. See if that helps.

But keep on those water changes.

[jzyjack]

Do a 50 percent water change daily until it goes away.

This has worked for me for virtually everything. Fin rot, lymphocystis, ich, "listlessness", "bloat", etc.

What are/were you feeding them?

In my experience, if you feed Mbuna any brine shrimp or worms, you're basically propping open the door for the dreaded bloat...

thanx, i'm gonna start doing the bigger water changes. i've been feeding them nutramax spirulina flakes, omega 1 cichlid flakes, some cichlid pellets with spirulina in them, and maybe once a week i give them frozen bloodworms, chopped scallops or live guppies. i'm gonna cut out the worms. please pray for me. i'll post my water conditions later tonight when i get home, hopefully they're not all dead. say a prayer for me a and the fishes.

Well, I think I have isolated your problem

Bloodworms/scallops and live guppies?

Not such good foods for Mbuna. They eat aufwuchs primarily in the wild, I am told, which are essentially just scrapings of algae and other microorganisms off the surfaces of rocks.

Despite their aggressive nature I would by no means classify them as carnivores.

Spirulina flake and vegetable mixes are what I like to feed mine. Mbuna have long intestines to deal with the high degree of vegetable matter in their diets and foods high in animal proteins can sometimes stop them up pretty good. Hence "the dreaded Malawi bloat".

Add a little epsom salt to your water (MgSO4) in the amount of 1 tsp/gallon. See if that helps.

But keep on those water changes.

ok, here's my h20 test results....

AMMONIA: 0-0.2
NITRITE: .25
NITRATE: 80
PH: 8.2
KH: 7
GH: 8

keep in mind that i took these readings about 3 hours after a 50% h20 change.

thanx again cumb dunt, i really appreciate it.

[Cumb Dunt]

Nitrate 80?

Wowsers. Do a water change daily, alternately twice daily, until that tests under 30.

You must be just dumping food in there. Or your kit is WAY off.

Do you do weekly water changes?

What kind of fish load do you have? What size is the tank? What is your filtration?

[MatsP]

Your nitrite reading is also quite high - which is probably becuase you've taken the media out of the filter.

I agree with others: big water changes, every day, until you get the nitrate level down [but do a test to see that the new water isn't 80 ppm already].

In the cases I've seen nitrate readings be wrong, they are usually zero (or low) compared to the actual value. I haven't seen a test that shows higher than actual values, but I'm sure it's conceivable.

--
Mats

[jzyjack]

Nitrate 80?

Wowsers. Do a water change daily, alternately twice daily, until that tests under 30.

You must be just dumping food in there. Or your kit is WAY off.

Do you do weekly water changes?

What kind of fish load do you have? What size is the tank? What is your filtration?

ok, they are dropping like flies! lost 3 more fish today. i have a 37 gal, with a magnum 350 with duel bio-wheels and a 24" bubble wand for aeration. i think the elevated levels are from removing the carbon and the bio-wheels to treat them. there are 10 fish in there, from 1"-4". i do a 25% water change weekly and usually a 10-15% in the middle of the week.

they are now showing cloudy bubble eyes. also the tell tale long stringy feces. did another 50% h20 change today and medicated again. this time i use furan-2 because the clout didn't seem to be helping, if anything, it got worse. i don't know what to do next, i have a feeling i'm gonna lose all the fish before it gets better. i'm gonna test the water again in about an hour or so after it settles back down after the water change. i'll post the results.

[jzyjack]

here are todays h20 conditions....

ammonia: .35
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 40
ph: 8.2

i think the ammonia went up because of the 3 dead fish which i have since removed. thanx for all your help guys, i really appreciate your input, i'm a nervous wreck over this. my dog even seems to see that i'm upset.

[Cumb Dunt]

I would stop indiscriminately dumping medications into the water. The problem is not with pathogens, it is with your water quality.

Do a 50 percent water change twice a day until your fish look better. Put your filter media back in and leave it there.

[jzyjack]

ok, i think it's getting under control. i lost alot of fish, but the 6 that i have left are looking better every day. they are even eating a little bit. in a week or two i'm even thinking about introducing some new fish. my nitrite is 0, nitrate is down to 20 ammonia is 0.25. i've been doing 50% h20 changes daily for the last 10 days or so and stopped medicating the tank. the only thing i've been putting in is a little stress coat for the chlorine and to help their slime. i think i'm gonna take the water changes down to about 25% for a while and then get back to doing them weekly.

thanx you to everyone for all their help, especially cumb dunt. me and the survivors appreciate it.

[Lisachromis]

You may want to wait a few weeks before adding any new fish to keep the stress levels down (and possibly keep the new fish from getting sick too)....

[Cumb Dunt]

I think you'll be fine to add new fish when a) all of the ones you have are eating again and showing no outward sign of disease and b) your nitrate is under 5 ppm.

i just reread this thread and realized that we are missing some key diagnostic information.

what size is your tank?

how many fish were in it when they started to "get sick"?

how large are/were the majority of your mbuna?

what is your filtration like?

(all out of curiosity...and maybe i can give you some advice to stop this from happening again )

[jzyjack]

right........


ok, it's a 37 gal, lots of large rocks, almost to the surface in areas. natural sand substrate. started with 16 fish 2-3 1/2 " fitration is a magnum 350 with duel bio-wheels and one of those hydor thingies that move the current around on discharge. i keep a 60-40% mix of high density carbon and zeolite. also have a 24" bubble wand for more aeration. the first fish to get sick was a mature female orange zebra. i assumed she had eggs by her behavior. that was the root of it. if i would have recognized it, i could have isolated her, but i was too busy thinking about what to do with all the fry. this all happened 2 weeks before the rest of the tank showed any symptoms.