Stocking 360G CA/SA

[Mikkel]

Hi all

Let me first say that I'm impressed with the knowledge the users of this forum seem to have. Been asking for stocking advice on other forums before coming here and usually get "Wow - get an arowana and a shark" or similar and....well...<sigh>
Hopefully you guys can do better

Playing around with two alternatives - frontosa with Tang mates or American cichlids. She Who Must Be Obeyed has a lot to say in this as it's the living room tank, so species tank is out of the question.
Measures (metric alert): 220cm x 80cm x 60-90cm - former sw custom built tank to be wider in corner end for cave/reef area
Filtration: 2 x Fluval FX5
PH on local water is around 7,6 - can be modified ofc, but I prefer to keep things simple if I can.

The candidates are - and yes, we do know that some of them don't mix

Aequidens pulcher ”Blue Acara”
Geophagus brasiliensis (other Geo possible - just a bit harder to get)
Thorichthys meeki "Firemouth"
Astronotus ocellatus “Oscar”
Archocentrus octofasciatum "Jack Dempsey"
Andinoacara sp. "Gold saum"
Heros sp.

5 Chromobotia macracanthus "Clown loach"
1 or 2 Ancistrus, Synodontis or similar

Now for the big question: What to get and what not to get....and how many of each? Seems most recommendations that can be found on the net are based on tanks in the 55-125 range. Keep in mind that one of us wants it to be "pretty", the other wants it to be interesting and that we will buy fish as juvies so the whole family can watch them grow, give them names....and mourn any deaths. My idea is to have 4-6 of one species (depending on size) and then add some singles or pairs of a few of the others for that splash of color, but I don't even know if that's possible.
Also, please feel free to recommend other candidates

TY for your time,

Mikkel

PS: Tank is almost cycled, so I'll be nagged to death if I don't have a list ready soon - HELP

[blackghost]

Hi Mikkel

Your tank is large enough for a community of either Rifts or Americans, but I have only briefly kept Rifts so I cant really be much use there.

Personally I would not mix CA's and SA's as their water requirements are different. CA's like hard alkaline water and SA's like soft acid.
It can, and is, done, but personally I wouldnt recommend it.

The 'odd one out' from your species list in terms of aggression is the Andinoacara. All the others are relatively peaceful by comparison. It is certainly better to mix them as youngsters, as this way there is less likely to be the aggression levels you might get by adding adult fish.

There are many fish to choose from from each continent which can be mixed with a bit of careful planning, and plenty of colour and interest aswell.

[Mikkel]

Thanks

OK, so if I go for SA that leaves me with the following:

Aequidens pulcher
Geophagus
Astronotus ocellatus
Heros

....and maybe something else

I know Andinoacara can be quite aggressive, so I'll take it of the list....but they were "pretty" at the LFS so I had to put them on the 1st list
I'm still not sure about what the best combo is though 2+2+2+2 would indeed be pretty, but if I get all m/f pairs things could get nasty real quick. 1+2+1+2 might be safer. 1+1+4+1 would work too I guess if I get some mellow Oscars...

Any obvious winning combo that I have overlooked?

[blackghost]

"obvious winning combo".......I dont know if there is such a thing when keeping large cichlids together, or large with smaller.

Blue Acaras and Geophagus are not too aggressive, on paper, also Heros, but Oscars will be an 'unknown'. They are unsexable, and if you end up with a pair that wants to breed they will claim the whole tank to themselves. If you include oscars in the mix I would allow for the possibility that things might have to change at some point.

Acaras, Geophagus, Heros, Mesonauta, Dwarf Crenicichla, Hyphsophrys temporalis....I think you should get a successful community with any of these, with some not-too-small peaceful dithers. Maybe even Angels aswell. Any pair breeding shouldnt be too much of a problem in such a large tank (not sure about temporalis here - they are peaceful normally, but big!! and they are, no doubt, cichlids when they breed).

Since your pH is 7.6 you could also maybe add some CA Thorichthys or Cryptoheros to the mix, but dont mix same-genus spp(?) as they like hybridising. Or convicts.

[sidguppy]

I'd say: go with what adapts best with the tapwater!

your tank will most likely be a sort of "community cichlid living room tank" and that means you want:

-easy to keep fish, sturdy and tough

-active fish, not hiding all day

-fish that react positively to people (kids?) coming close to the tank

-colorful! goodlooking. no uglies allowed

fish like that eat a lot, swim all day and poop all night
hence, you need to be able to change fair amounts of water without getting all kinds of issues.
you don't want to fumble about with ktion/anion exchangers, rho-water, rainwater etcetera.

what is your tapwater like?

if it's fairly soft; South American cichlids can be kept; this includes Adinoacara (Green Terror), Oscars and a lot of other colorful beauties like the Xingu Pike, large characins (Metynnis aka Silver Dollar), Heros, Geophagus etc

South American catfish include a zillion kind of pleco's (better known as "L numbers"), many of wich have striking colors and patterns, for example the Panaque or the Gold Nugget are true beauties. ditto the gracile Sturisoma, the skitterish Pimelodus or the tame Hoplosternum.

Clown Loaches originate from water that is virtually the same as Amazonian water and do fine in a large South american tank.


if it's hard Central Americans are the way to go.
many of them are so colorful it's almost trippy (Vieja synspilum comes to mind), others have great personality like the Parachromis and of course the Jack Dempsey wich is also very colorful and very easy to keep

there aren't many catfishes from Central America. the sturdier SA catfishes will do fine with them; like Platydoras, Hypostomus, Ancistrus etc.

also a great combi with CA cichlids are the larger African Synodontis like Synodontis eupterus, S angelicus (stunning fish), S schoutedeni, S longirostris etc


I know that many tapwatercompanies keep their tapwater in the midrange with hardiness and boost the pH up to 8.
this they do because in water like that, copper doesn't dissolve.

soft acidic water dissolves minute amounts of copper (pipes are made of it) and that amount of copper is no good in the human body, it's a toxin.

hence the pH 8 buffering. keeps you healthy.


if your tapwater is REALLY hard and alkaline then Tanganyika is the way to go.
frontosa's are the "Oscars of Africa" with similar behaviour and a lot of personality too.

Riftlake Synodontis are truly gorgeous and as catfish go extremely visible. they are also for sale in a lot of places.
they range from the tiny captive bred Synodontis lucipinnis and S petricola tothe majestic and horribly expensive Synodontis granulosa wich is the Emperor among African catfish.


there IS another possibility.......

if Reeftanks are your thing, but you don't want to go thast way because of the money tag; if large active and above all tame handfeedable true beauties that co-exist with catfishes ansd are kid-resistant; I can recommend Madagascar........

specifically Paretyroplus maculatus or P menarambo.
these are shoaling fish! yes, a true shoaling cichlid. the bigger the number, the more fun.
in a 300G tank you can keepa fair sized group
they reach a fair size, they're incredibly tame, they are very easy to keep if you forego breeding and they can be kept with almost any characin, barb, loach or catfish.

they always remind me of Surgeonfish. the blue Dory in Finding Nemo.
except that Paretroplus is green with red, grey and gold. the shape is almost the same and the swimming as well.

all Paretroplus are captive bred nowadays and they adapt to any water as long as it's clean.

[Mikkel]

On the job, so I'll have to keep it short....-ish

Did a new test on the tapwater yesterday:
pH: 7,8
dH: 7-8

Think we're decided on a somewhat peaceful SA tank, so plenty of roots, only a few rocks and some big pieces of nature cork attached to back of the tank. A few Vallisneria in the substrate and plenty of java ferns on the cork. Might also add some plastic mesh to the back to make a fern/moss wall effect. I imagine that the plants and released tannins from the cork and roots will make the water more ideal for SA.

Looks like the fish will be 2 Blue Acara, 2 Geos, 4-5 loaches, a few angels and maybe 2 Severums - if we leave out the Severums, more angels or something else will probably be added. Swordtails, Emperor Tetras or something else for dithers (daughter gets to decide those). Getting farther and farther away from my original plan but that's how these things go
A bit undecided on the pleco tbh. They're mostly referred to as poop machines and I imagine they could shred the cork to pieces in no time.

"Uglies"...well, it's all in the eye of the beholder Have had several sw tanks over the years and my all time favorite fish is the Lawnmower Blenny
(Salarias fasciatus) - never had a tank without one.