Cichla Help - Hemorrhaging, Lethargic, Upside-Down, etc.

[paulwmin]

I suppose it will be best for me to tell the whole story. I received an 8" Cichla piquiti "Sau Francisco" on Saturday. I noticed the UPS deivery man holding the box side-up. When I opened the box, it was well-insulated and heated, but there was maybe 4 inches of water depth in the bag, approximately 3 inches of air and maybe a foot in length of water. The fish was packed using oxygen and tripple-bagged. I apologize in advance for the length of this post.

I acclimated it by floating the bag for a while and then slowly and incrementally adding tank water until there was enough to put the fish and the water into a short bucket. From there, I added more tank water until the temperatures in the bag and the tank were within a couple of degrees from each other. Then, I netted it out of the bucket into the tank. It went to the bottom for a while to finish acclimating to the tank and then finally started swimming around. The other peacock bass (total of 3 about the same size, but none larger) were at it for a little, which is usual when I put a new fish in there, but they usually stop quickly, especially with other Cichla. However, it was getting picked on, so I removed the festae, which is smaller than the bass, thinking that is was the one doing the picking (didn't notice the other Cichla messing with it). Unfortunately, I had to leave (probably 10 hours) and when I got back, it was still getting picked on and was still looking very pale...I will attach a picture that the seller took when it was in his tank. I also started noticing some hemorrhaging, mostly towards the base of the fins.

So, it appeared that if I didn't do something, they were going to beat on it until it died, so I made the risky and unfortunate decision to move it into a quarantine tank. While I was acclimating it in a bucket, I made the very unwise (read: STUPID) decision to put the PraziPro (which I was treating the rays in the tank with, along with salt and a little MelaFix) and MelaFix into the bucket...I was not thinking clearly due to being frantic about losing such an expensive fish (for me, at least). As was the case when I moved a C. ocellaris to another tank (that time without adding anything), it went belly-up. I then transfered it as quickly as I could (the water temperatures in the 300 and the 40 are about the same in the first place) into the quarantine tank. The time was approximately 1900 hours. Also, its caudal peduncle has noticeably curved dorsally.

It has remained that way until now. Some more information: I changed one-third of the water and added more salt and MelaFix. If I try to put it upright, it will struggle a good bit and swim around upright for a bit, but then quit swimming, "belly-up" (not necessarily in that order) and lay in its dorsal...usually in the same corner. With all of the brilliant minds that frequent this sight, I'm hoping someone will be able to tell me something to do that I haven't or know what is wrong with it. Please help...and to add to the stress, my balas were nipping at my Hyrdrolycus armatus, which has caused it to shed its slime coat and get ich.

FYI, The tank is a 40 Breeder with AC70 HOB filter, 125 gallon-rated sponge filter and an extra airstone that I added after putting the new fish in.

edit: the temperature is about 83F. I would really like to move it so the rays don't have problems, but that would certainly seal its fate.

[paulwmin]

I can't believe no one I've asked has any answers I used a seeded sponge filter and water from the 40 and put the water and the fish in another tank that I freed up so I could get it away from the rays. It's still doing the same thing.

However, the MelaFix isn't working for the fin rot. There are still some rays on the caudal fin left, but it's to the caudal peduncle in one spot. I added Maracyn to try and stop the fin rot, so if the fin rot or whatever else the fish has doesn't kill it, the meds probably will.

[Lisachromis]

I have never seen this so cannot help you. Hopefully someone can chime in with an answer for you.

The best I can offer is to keep doing your water changes. Keep everything as clean as possible for the fish. Do you have a pic of what he/she looks like now?

Crossing my fingers for you.

[paulwmin]

Thank you, Lisa. I have never had a fish live this long that has been unable to maintain proper equilibrium, either. I hope the Maracyn at least cures the fin rot; at least that will reduce its stress level.

I will take a picture and post it after I get home. The water is pretty cloudy from the Maracyn, though.

[Dan Woodland]

I can think of two things. A problem occurred during shipping, especially if by air, damaging the swim bladder or some kind of infection in it's swim bladder.

Granted this has only happened to my fish a couple times, usually from fighting, but in my experience I've never been able to right an "upside down" Cichlid. Unfortunately that means I don't have any options for you.

[Grummie2]

Large cichla have a reputation for not travelling well, they soon succumb to stress and rapid water quality changes. If this fish had fed prior to shipping then there's a good chance its problems are ammonia related (fin burn is a give away). The salt and melafix should sort that out (but the damaged tissue will have to come off first, as it's doing), but the internal damage will be more difficult to cure. As Dan says, once they go upside down there's pretty much nothing that can be done, however if the fish is still flexing it's back (ie not rigid) and it attempts to eat, then there is a slim chance of recovery.

[paulwmin]

I'm not sure that the shipping is what actually caused these things, but rather something happened that made it susceptible and it didn't have a good chance to acclimate properly because of the other fish. It didn't go "belly-up" until I tried to move it out of the original tank. And, like I said, I had another one "belly-up" when I moved it and it wasn't even out of a tank for more than a couple hours and I moved other Cichla about the same size that were fine, plus it was not stressed to begin with.

The shipper did not feed for 3 days prior to shipping. I asked about sending it out right away and he said it was still on feed and wanted to fast it for 3 days before shipping. A large part of my job is transporting fish in tank trucks and that's what we always do. However, I, like both of you, have never had a fish go "belly-up" that survived unless it righted itself straight away. It was pretty rigid, but I could feel the muscles trying to work when I would right it and it would struggle. I didn't try feeding it.

However, it did die on Wednesday. I moved it into a tank separate from the rays Tuesday night using water from the 40 and an established filter. It was still the same in the morning, but there was a little ammonia, so I did a water change and never plugged the heater and air pump for the sponge back in. Under normal circumstances, the parameters when I got home and found the fish dead wouldn't have killed it, I'm pretty sure, but it couldn't handle the extra stress. It was probably inevetable, though, so I was probably just dragging it on and making it suffer.

I learned some good lessons at least and will never receive larger fish overnight, for one.

Thank you for all your input. I'm still not sure exactly what the trigger was that made it go "belly-up", but I know it was a combination of stress from shipping and tankmates, moving and putting meds in the bucket, just not sure what was the "straw that broke the camel's back" in this case.