Otopharynx tetrastigma or Tramitichromis intermedius

[Sharpfish]

Can anyone positively Id. this fish? Is it Otopharynx tetrastigma or Tramitichromis intermedius? The coloration of these two fish is almost identical. I have been using Ad Konings 3rd edition Malawi cichlids book. The O. tetrastigma is on pg. 236. The T. intermedius is on pg. 273. These are the best pictures I have now. I can take more if necessary. Thanks Wally

[Sharpfish]

Sorry about the photos. The face of the fish were in the original photos. But for some reason the program does not like my files.

[emartin]

Sorry about the photos. The face of the fish were in the original photos. But for some reason the program does not like my files.

I know Sharpfish is just expanding his inquiry to other forums,

but in my opinion the false Tramitichromis intermedius (pic below of the false kind) is actually Otopharynx tetrastigma and in my opinion here in the US any retailers that get the false intermedius in should relabel them as Otopharynx tetrastigma "false intermedius".

Here's a few pics of the "false intermedius" that's sold a lot here in the US:



And pics of Otopharynx tetrastigma:
http://www.malawi-dream.info/Otopharynx_tetrastigma.htm

I also though want other opinions though as to whether or not I am right that the false intermedius really is Otopharynx tetrastigma (so don't think I'm hijacking your thread Sharpfish! lol).

~Ed

[Lisachromis]

Sorry about the photos. The face of the fish were in the original photos. But for some reason the program does not like my files.

It has to do with the forum software and the size of your photos. Maybe one day an update to the software will correct the problem, but the easiest thing is to resize the images to approx 800 pixels wide.

[s4surf]

I recently bought some of these in the US as Tramitichromis intermedius SP, the sp I believe designates the false Intermedius. I have been trying to find some information on them and also came up with the Otopharynx tetrastigma. I have been unable to find many good pictures of the real intermedius in adult form to compare, but from what I have found their dot/blotch pattern is quite different and I have not seen a good picture with adult colors. I totally agree with emartin that the false Intermedius and the Otopharynx are the same fish. I also found the green faced Lethrinops as another alias but I'm still digging. I would like to know more about these but I can say they are one beautiful specimen and have a very peaceful temperment.

Anyone have adult true intermedius pictures so we can compare?

Steve

[emartin]

I recently bought some of these in the US as Tramitichromis intermedius SP, the sp I believe designates the false Intermedius. I have been trying to find some information on them and also came up with the Otopharynx tetrastigma. I have been unable to find many good pictures of the real intermedius in adult form to compare, but from what I have found their dot/blotch pattern is quite different and I have not seen a good picture with adult colors. I totally agree with emartin that the false Intermedius and the Otopharynx are the same fish. I also found the green faced Lethrinops as another alias but I'm still digging. I would like to know more about these but I can say they are one beautiful specimen and have a very peaceful temperment.

Anyone have adult true intermedius pictures so we can compare?

Steve

Here's pictures of the real Tr. intermedius taken by Ad Konings:
http://www.malawi-dream.info/Tramitichr ... medius.htm

And pictures of real Tr. intermedius juvenile:


~Ed

[s4surf]

Thanks e-martin for the link, there is no mistaking that fish for the other two Its interesting that the juvenile has no spots/pattern at all. I have some small fry <1" from my FALSE pair and they have the three dots down their lateral line area when they were born. When does the REAL Intermedius show their pattern that is seen on the females in your link? I don't see any confusion between this pattern and the one on the false unless I'm missing something.

Thanks,
Steve

[emartin]

Thanks e-martin for the link, there is no mistaking that fish for the other two Its interesting that the juvenile has no spots/pattern at all. I have some small fry <1" from my FALSE pair and they have the three dots down their lateral line area when they were born. When does the REAL Intermedius show their pattern that is seen on the females in your link? I don't see any confusion between this pattern and the one on the false unless I'm missing something.

Thanks,
Steve

I'm not sure when they will show their pattern more clearly. If you look REALLY closely at the pic of the juvenile you can see some very faint spotting.

My guess though is that is how either the Lake divers or the Florida farmers made their mistake identifying it because of the spots when they are adults. But despite the spots though, the body shape is COMPLETELY different!!! It makes you wonder how they managed to misidentify them all these years.

Either way both are beautiful fish... Both Otopharynx tetrastigma 'false intermdius' and the real Tramitichromis intermedius.

~Ed

[s4surf]

This shoud be interesting around our theory between these two fish.

My friend picked up a group of Otopharynx tetrastigma yesterday at an auction. He says the males look just like our current false Intermedius, but the females do not look the same. I will report back here after I can view them and state the differences. He says they do not have the 3 lateral spots like the false Intermedius.

Steve

[s4surf]

Now I'm really confused after stopping by my friends house last night. The Otopharynx tetrastigma he bought at the auction have completely different females than the true or false intermedius. The male looks just like mine without counting spines, etc...., but the female has a horizontal black stripe with some black marks by the base of it's dorsal like the true intermedius female. They don't show the three black spots like males and my females have. These fish are around 2-3" and could possibly change appearance as they age, but they are very close to the size I received mine at and they already had the three spots with no horizontal line.

This looks the closest to my female of any picture I've found so far.

http://yanggybi.com.ne.kr/M-CICHLIDS%20 ... igma_x.jpg

This url shows what i see in my tank, these fish have the same pattern and head/body shape that I bought as false intermedius.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... 1%26um%3D1

Can anyone shed some light on this topic? Thomas????

emartin,
Now I can see why they had issues identifying these

Steve

[s4surf]

Hey sharpfish, what do your females look like?

Steve

[Sharpfish]

Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. All females and juveniles look like this. O. tetrastigma 1 female

[Sharpfish]

Sorry. Hope I got it this time.

[s4surf]

I need to get some pictures of the Tetrastigma's my friend just got at the auction. The male looks just like my false intermedius, but the females have a line instead of the three spots and black markings by the base of the dorsal fin. they almost look like the true Intermedius females. Now I see why no one has much information on these fish My female looks exactly like yours and was sold as a false Intermedius. Let me see how I can get some pictures and post back here.

And sorry Sharpfish for being late to breakfast on my reply

Steve

[s4surf]

I finally borrowed a camera and took a couple pictures of my male.

This was sold as a Tramitichromis Intermedius sp. AKA:False Intermedius

I could not get a picture of my female because she is holding, but as I said before it looks exactly like yours sharpfish.

Whats your thoughts ??







Steve

[Guba]

Oto Tetrastigma is a pit spawner, which figures in with it's habitat. They will also sand dive to escape predators, it's happened many times in my tank. Females and juveniles have either 3 black spots or the black lateral line from the gill cover to the tail, depending on their mood, as it can change. With the exception of the Tramitichromis photo's, all the others look like tetrastigma. Also, it's possible that tetrastigma could have some color variants. Not only do they inhabit lake Malawi, but several rivers also.

[Sharpfish]

Mine have never shown a black lateral line. It has always been the 3 dots for juveniles and females.

[sellfish]

I have a trio I bought as O. tetrastigma that have the line but it never changes. I thought they may have been hybrids because I bought a group of juvies from the same guy and they all have spots. I am really confused. I wish I could see a pics of some with the line.

[Guba]

The only time I saw the lateral line was when they were frightened. And usually as juveniles for the most part. I thought I had a pic of one with the lateral line, but I don't. DOH! At the time mine were breeding I didn't have any Tramitichromis, so the color profile sticks in my mind for sure.

[s4surf]

Is it possible that these fish with the horizontal black line are the Tetrastigma, and the ones with the three spots are the false
Intermedius?

Steve