My Tank with Xanthic Nicaraguense

[Sandman]

Here are a couple new photos of one of my tanks , a couple are closeups thta show the female xanthic Nicaraguense.

[Nuno Landeck]

Very, nice fish wher do you by youres xanthic Nicaraguense????

[chc]

Weren't you supposed to ship her to me already?

[Sandman]

Very, nice fish wher do you by youres xanthic Nicaraguense????

Iam not aware of any for sale. This female when purchased was just an "ordinary" juvenile Nicaraguense. I have some grow outs from a couple spawns I am working with to see how they turn out when they get bigger. It most likely will take another gereration to have some more. We will see. I am sorry this last pic wasn't very good. I will keep trying.

[Sandman]

Here are some better photos this time.

[Nuno Landeck]

Can you poste same photho of here nica phather´s???

[Sandman]

by mutotinho » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:37 pm

Can you poste same photho of here nica phather´s???


Sorry, i don't have the parents of the female Nicaraguense.

[Mack Emmons]

That is a very interesting mutation.

Unless your male is carrier of the gene aswell, it is unlikely that you will see any signs in your juveniles. This Xanthic trait is recessive, thus both parents must possess at least one recessive genotype to produce offspring that show this heterozygous recessive trait. If you wish to produce offspring with this trait, I suggest you familiarize yourself with punett squares. It may require(if your male doesn't carry the gene) you to breed a homozygous offspring back with your female, that should produce Xanthic offspring.

[Nuno Landeck]

Mack Emmons "thus both parents must possess at least one recessive genotype to produce offspring ", just like the EBJD???

[Mack Emmons]

Mack Emmons "thus both parents must possess at least one recessive genotype to produce offspring ", just like the EBJD???

Yes, reproducing this xanthic trait in offspring would be very similar to breeding Electric Blue Jack Dempseys.

[Darrell Ullisch]

That is a very interesting mutation.

Unless your male is carrier of the gene aswell, it is unlikely that you will see any signs in your juveniles. This Xanthic trait is recessive, thus both parents must possess at least one recessive genotype to produce offspring that show this heterozygous recessive trait. If you wish to produce offspring with this trait, I suggest you familiarize yourself with punett squares. It may require(if your male doesn't carry the gene) you to breed a homozygous offspring back with your female, that should produce Xanthic offspring.

Just a note, Mack, you have the terms "homozygous" and "heterozygous" backwards. Homozygous individuals have two genes for the same trait at a given locus, while heterozygous individuals have two different genes. Recessives have to be homozygous to be expressed. The offspring are likely to be heterozygous for the trait. And they possess a gene for the trait; a genotype is the genetic composition of a trait or a group of traits.

Also, while it is likely that this mutation is a recessive, it has not been tested. The delayed appearance also makes it more difficult to verify. If it is a recessive, then crossing two heterozygous siblings will also produce xanthic specimens, but only half as many as a backcross to the mother (25% vs. 50%). Still, it would probably be easier to get the siblings to cross than to get the mother to breed with one of her sons.

[Mack Emmons]

Just a note, Mack, you have the terms "homozygous" and "heterozygous" backwards.

Yes, you are correct. My mistake. I guess next time i should proof read

[Sandman]

Here are some updated photos of the earliest 1st generation (Larger in size than a subsequent spawn I am also growing out) They present a puzzle, of the 13, the largest male is obviously going through a xanthic "golden color change and has already spawned with the female parent, (see new fry). Now the original male parent apprently had the recessive gene. But perhaps it is not a single recessive gene? why only one of 13 showing this color change ? ( so far) . Any thoughts ?

[chc]

I love these fish! Great photos!

[Phreatobius]

Although the genetics are there to back up the fact that both parents carry the genetic code doesnt mean that all fry will exibit the trait. If it was a dominant trait you would be more likely to see the new trait being shown. Considering its likely recessive you ccould potentially have no babies that show the trait but it doesnt mean the trait wont be shown in another clutch. I hope that made sense haha

[Bluejax]

Well, this is interesting!

If the original male was a carrier and the gene was recessive then half the brood should have xanthic and half carriers:

Punnet square for predicting the outome of a cross between a double recessive parent and a carrier:

a a
------------------------
A | Aa Aa -----------> These fish look normal but carry the recessive gene
|
a | aa aa ------------> These fish would be (in this case) xanthic, as they have two copies of the recessive gene

i.e. 50:50 ratio

You say only 1 of 13 offspring is xanthic. So my question is:

Did the female really only lay 13 eggs in total or is this the total number of fry you managed to raise?

This is very important. If she laid 150 eggs then it's not hard to imagine that you could have lost the majority of the xanthics in the 137 fry you didn't save.

Bear in mind that the 12 normal looking fish should carry this gene (if it's just recessive and linked to any other genes in any special way) so breeding two of them together should give you 25% xanthics.

[Bluejax]

Also, I'm pretty sure Jeff Rapps (tangledupincichlids.com) was selling these several months ago. Yours are probably descended from his, if you see what I mean. No idea where he got them:

[Sandman]

The 13 in question are surviving "grow outs" from the 1st spawn that I raised in a differnt tank. They are 4-5 inches and spawning size now.iI started with maybe 30+ fry initially. I am growing out another subsequent spawn of apprx 40 from the same parents also. I am also growing out a new batch of fry from the original female parent and the xanthic "golden" male now. I don't think it is as simple a prediction as you suggest, saying it should be 50 % xanthic or 25 % xanthic etc.
You should check the article and photos on " Xanthism in Tropheus Moorii " by Toby Veall in Ad Konings, The Cichlid Yearbook ,Vol 5. Veall states, "we initiated a breeding programme, crossing a golden male with a golden coloured female. The resulting offspring were largely normal in color with only a SMALL (my caps) percentage showing varyng degrees of color variation--either towards the OB morph or the true Golden Kalambo. " I think you could charaterize my female parent as OB, (a very beautiful one at that) but the new male is something different than "just" OB, perhaps similar to this "golden" variation. Keep in mind that I am just a hobbyist and no expert in these fish, genetics, etc. Please feel free to continue this thread. This is fun !

[Bluejax]

Well, one thing that is interesting is that none of your fish are pure yellow, only pie-bald.

In other species, xanthics are totally yellow with no dark pigmentation (except in the eyes).

This might affect how the 'condition' is inherited in your fish so that it wouldn't follow simple Mendelian inheritance (i.e. it wouldn't give you the ratios I put in my post above).

[gorgesfish]

This could be a case of incomplete dominance. Where the Xanthic trait doesnt fully overtake the Regualr trait. Just my thoughts i could be wrong.