New Tank population question

[marc_alderliesten]

Dear readers,

I'm currently finishing my project of making my own stones for my new tank. i have made these stones hollow so they don't take away a lot of space for the fishes.

Pics: http://picasaweb.google.nl/lh/photo/TGs ... directlink

During that proces i have been looking for a nice combination of fish for the tank. the dimensions are: 150*60(deep)*50(high)

Now i'm wondering if you can keep Ophtalmotilapia ventralis to gether with Xenotilapia spilopterus and Eretmodus cyanostictus in one tank??

If so, what would be the best ratio's.

I was thinking of adding:

8 (4/4) spilopterus
4 (1/3) Ventralis
4 (2/2) Eretmodus

feel free to give your opinion or advice,

Best regards,

marc

[sidguppy]

maybe the ventralis and the eretmodus will be a bit too lively for the gentle laidback spilopterus

if you pick a more assertive sanddweller it'll be more balanced I think: some sort of Callochromis would be a good choice.

[Gerd]

Hello,

some sort of Callochromis would be a good choice.

But if you consider the very different needs in diet, with Ophthalmoventralis and Eretmodus on one side and Callochromis on the other .............?
Would maybe some X. papilio be a good choice?

Regards
Gerd

[James Shingler]

I think you would be very lucky to get two pairs of Eretmodus to share this tank.
Do by all means add the 4 or even 6 but be ready to remove the others when the first pair forms.
I think you have room for far more Opthals than 4 and 2 males show far more colour than just one. I would go 2-3 male and 5-6 female.
Not experienced with that sandsifter, so I am afraid I can not really say which one would be best.

[marc_alderliesten]

first of all, thanks for your feedback, it really helps me choosing my fishes.

if you pick a more assertive sanddweller it'll be more balanced I think: some sort of Callochromis would be a good choice.
maybe the ventralis and the eretmodus will be a bit too lively for the gentle laidback spilopterus

if you pick a more assertive sanddweller it'll be more balanced I think: some sort of Callochromis would be a good choice.

I was told that spilopterus would do fine together with ventralis, but if that is not the case I will look for another species.
I find most Callochromis species become to big, especially for this tank. And i like the slender and slim look of the spilopterus.

But if you consider the very different needs in diet, with Ophthalmoventralis and Eretmodus on one side and Callochromis on the other .............?
Would maybe some X. papilio be a good choice?

I read X. papilo is a more aggressive species for the more experienced Xenotilapia keeper. I have years of experience with Tanganyika cichlids but the not with Xenotilapia. So I don't know if that is a good choice. Concerning the diet, you might have a point there, I was thinking of feeding the spilopterus through a tube onto the sand 'don't know if this is realistic.

I believe there are more species of sand dwellers that can live on a green diet, the Ectodus Descampsi and the xenotilapia spec. katete. Are these fishes better choices?

I think you would be very lucky to get two pairs of Eretmodus to share this tank.
Do by all means add the 4 or even 6 but be ready to remove the others when the first pair forms.
I think you have room for far more Opthals than 4 and 2 males show far more colour than just one. I would go 2-3 male and 5-6 female.
Not experienced with that sandsifter, so I am afraid I can not really say which one would be best.
I think you would be very lucky to get two pairs of Eretmodus to share this tank.
Do by all means add the 4 or even 6 but be ready to remove the others when the first pair forms.
I think you have room for far more Opthals than 4 and 2 males show far more colour than just one. I would go 2-3 male and 5-6 female.
Not experienced with that sandsifter, so I am afraid I can not really say which one would be best.

Concerning the eret's, it could be a better idea to only get 2 eret's, although I was told that Eretmodus Cyanostictus
could live among his own kind.

Would adding 9 Opthals not be to much? they are relatively large fishes and the males need some sort of territory right? so it would become a very busy tank, that's not a problem with me, but the health of the fishes has highest priority

looking forward of hearing your opinion about it.

[tanganyikanhunt]

Would you mind sharing how exactly you made these hollow rocks? They are most convincing.

Thanks,

Tony

[marc_alderliesten]

Would you mind sharing how exactly you made these hollow rocks? They are most convincing.

Thanks,

Tony

I'll try, although I do not know all the English words for the materials,

I started with Styrofoam, I carved the rough form of the rock out of this material.

Next step was to cover the Styrofoam with a layer of cement/tile glue to protect the Styrofoam from the next layer: the polyester,

I used fibreglass mats to strengthen the polyester.

When this process was dry (I waited for a week, just to be sure), I removed the Styrofoam, and gave the polyester a base layer of cement (inside and outside).(Dried for a week)

Over this cement came a layer of epoxy, to keep all possible harmful toxics away from the water. the polyester is used in ponds but I never came across someone who used it in an aquarium. so this is just to be certain. and it strengthens the final construction.

The only thing I need to do is to apply a final layer of epoxy with an added pigment (grey) for the final looks. the layer of epoxy you can see on the picture is very shiny and by adding pigment to the epoxy you can get rid of the glow.

The final stone is heavier than water, so i can use my stones just like real ones, they don't float so i do not have to glue them to the tank. It is a very long process (and very messy)and it is not cheap, the total cost lie around 180 euro, but you can make the rocks according to your own ideas and remove them at any time and re-decorate the tank in minutes. I always use a lot of real stones (see my other pictures) in my tanks but after purchasing a new tank the total weight would probably become to much and i liked the idea of a couple of very big stones.

I have watched the national geographic movie about Tanganyika several times in a row to get an idea of the looks of real Tanganyikan stones.

[tanganyikanhunt]

Thank you so much for the explanation. Having accidently dropped rocks (real ones) in glass tanks this is a very appealing idea.

[marc_alderliesten]

Back to the population question,

what kind of sand dweller would you guy's suggest for a 450 liter aquarium with the following tank mates;

Group/couple (depending on the species) of eretmodus

Group of O. Ventralis

[Gerd]

Hello,
with the Eretmodus and the Ventralis you really chose two tankmates, that need a green diet.
So, if you wish to keep a third species in the tank, you should really look for comparable nutrition needs.

I was thinking of feeding the spilopterus through a tube onto the sand 'don't know if this is realistic.

I don't know too. To be true, I would say: No, it isn't.
And there is no Xenotilapia at all, that shares the nutrition needs of Eretmodus and Ventralis, not even from the papilio group, I learned.

the Ectodus Descampsi and the xenotilapia spec. katete. Are these fishes better choices?

No.
Both are more carnivores.
If you want to add a Xenotilapia, the only recommendation would be Asprotilapia leptura (Xenotilapia leptura) But this is a fish, which should be kept in a group.
Closely related to Ectodus, the Lestradea and the Cardiopharynx live much more on a green diet than Ectodus. But both are species which, like Asprotilapia, should be kept in a group.

Would adding 9 Opthals not be to much? they are relatively large fishes and the males need some sort of territory right?

Right!
So, all in all I would say:
If you decide for that much Ophthalmotilapia, thats, together with the Eretmodus, enough for this tank.
If you wish to add a third species, you should keep a smaller number of Ophthalmotilapia (think about the heterodonta, it's a little bit more docile, than the ventralis) and add a small group of Asprotilapia, Cardiopharynx (next to impossible to get some), or Lestradea (a very, very beautiful fish)
Regards
Gerd

[marc_alderliesten]

Thank you Gerd, for your advice,

It really helps me!

I have read a lot of articles about sand dwellers in order to find a group that can live on a green diet. And I found that a lot of articles contradict each other. The last thing I want is to end up with dead or ill fishes so I find this forum vey useful. So feel free to give your opinion and share your ideas about my choices!

So if I understand you correctly I could go for this combination:

Ophthalmotilapia heterodonta 1 male 2 female OR 2 males and 4 female (does 6 Opthal's mean i can have NO sanddweller?)

6 Lestradea perspicax 3 male and 3 female >> or is another ratio better? (I must agree; very very beautifull fish!!! I hope I can get them in holland)

Tanganicodus Irsacae >> I believe these fishes are more suitable to live in a group? otherwise I'll go for a pair. (if I keep more irsacae's I think I must limit the number of Opthal's)

I allways prefer to have at least 2 males and 2 females of each species in case the only male in the tank doesn't survive.

I also finished my stones, so here's a picture of the result:

http://picasaweb.google.nl/lh/photo/ufC ... directlink

http://picasaweb.google.nl/lh/photo/ZTB ... directlink

http://picasaweb.google.nl/lh/photo/-He ... directlink

I'll put a blue poster behind the empty glass and a piece of black plastic behind the stones to get more shadow between the rocks

I started making my stones with the idea to choose a sanddweller that lived both on the sand and between the rocks. does this apply to the perspicax? otherwise I have to remove a rock or two to create more sand.

[Gerd]

Hello Marc!

So if I understand you correctly I could go for this combination:Ophthalmotilapia heterodonta 1 male 2 female OR 2 males and 4 female

Yes. Or 1 male 3 females.

does 6 Opthal's mean i can have NO sanddweller?

In my opinion, yes. Ophthalmotilapia is a big fish, which claims space. And you have some gobies inside too. I would say, if there was a Xenotilapia, living in pairs, like the papilio, and feeding on a green diet - this would be a possibility. But there is no such sand-dweller. All the sand-dwellers I know, feeding on a green diet, should be kept in a group. And they all are fish of about 12 cm. And here we have the problem. 6 Ophthalmotilapia and some gobies and a group of the ectodini mentioned. In MY opinion it's too much. But I know, many others would not hesitate, to keep Ophthalmotilapia and Eretmodus together with some Xenotilapia.
And maybe succesfull! So, I don't want to be the spoil-sport!
But for me, comparable nutrition needs are always a major criterion, when I'm thinking about tank population questions.

6 Lestradea perspicax 3 male and 3 female >> or is another ratio better?

From my experience, Lestradea is a no-fuss fish. 3/3 is OK. There's no ratio, that should cause problems.

I hope I can get them in holland

I hope for you too.
After many years when I tried to get them and it seemed to be next to impossible, they are to be seen in retailers' tanks now here and there. I only know the lists of Verduijn and Aquabeek in Holland, and here, at the moment, they don't appear. I know at least three adresses in Germany, where they are in stock, but this won't help you, I guess.

Tanganicodus Irsacae >> I believe these fishes are more suitable to live in a group? otherwise I'll go for a pair.

It's always a bit unpredictable, if a pair or a group of these gobies works better. They are aggressive, but behave always a bit individualistically.
But I'd say this as well for the Eretmodus, as for the Tanganicodus, as for the Spathodus.

I allways prefer to have at least 2 males and 2 females of each species in case the only male in the tank doesn't survive.

In the majority of cases, a retailer will sell you a single male. It's mor difficult if you need females only!
So far!
I hope you'll find a solution, you're satisfied and happy with!

[marc_alderliesten]

6 Ophthalmotilapia and some gobies and a group of the ectodini mentioned. In MY opinion it's too much. But I know, many others would not hesitate, to keep Ophthalmotilapia and Eretmodus together with some Xenotilapia.
And maybe succesfull! So, I don't want to be the spoil-sport!

I agree with you on the amount of fish, I have seen adult opthal's and they are indeed big fishes, considering the territory the males will occupy my tank can only house 1 male + 3 females.

But for me, comparable nutrition needs are always a major criterion, when I'm thinking about tank population questions.

The most important thing for me is the health of the fishes, and because food plays an important role in healthcare I'll try to follow your advice and go for fishes with the same diet.

After many years when I tried to get them and it seemed to be next to impossible, they are to be seen in retailers' tanks now here and there. I only know the lists of Verduijn and Aquabeek in Holland, and here, at the moment, they don't appear. I know at least three adresses in Germany, where they are in stock, but this won't help you, I guess.

If I can not get them in Holland, going to Germany is not a problem, after purchasing my tank I started making fake stones and this process took a month or three, I own a small tank with Multi's but these are the only fishes I have. I took my time with every step in the preparation of the tank and will do so too with the fishes, so an extra trip to Germany is no problem. So if you could give me the address/webisite's of those stores I would be grateful.

It's always a bit unpredictable, if a pair or a group of these gobies works better. They are aggressive, but behave always a bit individualistically.
But I'd say this as well for the Eretmodus, as for the Tanganicodus, as for the Spathodus.

I think that I'll go for just a pair of gobies, considering I will go for the Lestradea as well if i can get them. If not I can always increase the number of gobies.

[tanganyikanhunt]

Concering eretmodus, I completely disagree with a poster above. In a tank with that length I would think you could put a dozen erets in there and have spawning activity pretty frequently. The biggest mistake people make with fish is listening to completely wrong advice. I have kept a group of 9 together for at least three years in a 48 inch tank with tropheus and frequently have spawns. When, like tropheus, there are enough to confuse the aggression they all seem to get along fine.

Plus is the interesting interaction you never see with a "pair". Remember, it is the fish that decide who to pair with not the fish keeper.

Good luck!

Tony

[Gerd]

Hello!

biggest mistake

completely wrong advice

Harsh words at springtime!
I'm too tired to give an reply, but ...
Just think about the words "right" and "wrong".
And: Can't we share different experiences?
Nevertheless
Regards
Gerd