P. menarambo and polypterus

[Cockroach]

Hi I just joined the forum and wanted some questions answered to find the best stocking list. I have been keeping fish for a few years and have tanks ranging from 29gal to 300gal

My 180gal is now plumbed and should be ready in a week . I was thinking of housing D. Compressiceps with my polytperus but was talked out of it, probably for the better.

Now my new question is will I be able to keep 6-8 P. Menarambo in the tank with my Polypterus? My filtartion is a wet sump of 45 gallons and I will be adding a fluid bed filter rated for a 750L tank with a mag drive paump of 4500L/h

Suggestions, comments or general opinions all welcome whether they are good or bad.

Thanks
Roach

[sidguppy]

the Dimidiochromis would fit in with the polypterus, as would the menarambo without any issues

the one issue is NOT to put in small cichlids (or any fish) with a large polypterus.
they are slow and clumsy during the day and stealthed and cunning through the night.

a 8" or larger Polypterus is well capable of eating 2-3" fish during the night.

but the more highbuild a fish is, the less chance it'll end up as a snack.

and reverse; it's good if the polypterus has a few hiding places, like for example 'low tunnels' under a piece of bogwood or something to escape unwanted attention by the cichlids.

I've seen polypterus being badly mauled by frontosa and other large cichlids.

both named cichlid species eat the same stuff as any polypterus.

about waterchemistry; both the named cichlids like the water fairly hard and a ph of 7 and up, most polypterus are undemanding, but the best suitable polypterus is P ornatipinnis. this one occurs in lake tanganyika and hence easily adapts to a hard water environment with ph 8.

[Cockroach]

Well thank you. At last I get a reply. I have been doing research to find out if all of this will work and posted some threads without luck on other forums and finally got a decent reply.

Which do you think will be better the d. compressiceps say 9-10 with the bichirs or 6-8 p. menarambo.

I did think about mixing it up for a while with about 4 d. compressiceps and 6 p. menarambo but thought it would lesson the appeal of the tank . What are your thoughts on that?

The tank is 82-88cm tall (can't exactly remember right now) so their is a lot of vertical space for the fish to swim. There are also 3 pieces of driftwood, one being the main piece that the polys can hide around.

Would keeping the water flow rate a little higher stop the cichlids from harassing the polys too much as they keep swimming more instead of "hanging around"?

[sidguppy]

hehe a load of questions

IME both the Paretroplus and the Dimidiochromis are much more agressive to their own speciesmembers and tend to ignore other fish.

both seem to ignore "catfish like" species. if they are of similar size, I still don't see much trouble.

but I still miss 1 thing and that is info about the Polypterus: how big are the Polypterus right now, how many of them around and wich species?

about the cichlid-species; the Damba's should be kept with as many as you can get away with; money, tankspace etc.
i keep finding more and more info that in small groups it's just sheer luck if they stay docile.
sometimes they do. but often they do not. Think that about 8 is a nice number.

these are also very active fish. always swimming, chasing each other a bit, grazing or chewing sand. constant on the move.

the Dimidio's might not like that constant level. on the other hand, this is still a fairly tough Malawian hap.
butr it might get stressed a bit.
another thing: bogwood might add substances to the water that the Malawian haps might not like at all.

in general pieces of wood in Malawian or Tanganyikan tanks is not a good plan, unless it's really old wood and all the peat-bog-stuff is leeched out of it and you keep a good eyew on the waterparameters.
but avoiding the whole issue beforehand is a lot easier than fixing it afterwards.

also: both Dimidiochromis and Polypterus like planted area's. the Dimidio is a true Vallisneria-biotpe dweller, evolved to lurk around between the leaves, sneak attacking small fish from this cover

Polypterus are swamp dwellers in general and most often African swamps are densely planted with all kinds of plants; Papyrus, Anubias, reeds, vallisneria's in the flooded area's etc.

Paretroplus are lawnmowers.......they're even worse than Silver Dollars in this aspect.
I feed my Paretroplus with plant growth surplus from other tanks.....it takes my group less than a day to chomp up several ounces of added greenery!

so here's the crux:
so if you want to build up a nice green biotope for your Polypterus; the Dimidio's are your best bet
but then the hiding places are best made out of rock instead of wood.

if the furniture is made of both rocks and wood, but you skip on the plants, the combo of Polypterus and Paretroplus is nice.

all three I shouldn't do. too many conflicting issues with plants or no plants, wood or no wood etc.

[Cockroach]

The polys I have are as follows:

Polypterus endlicheri endlicheri 1
Polyprterus senegalus senegalus albino 2
polypterus senegalus senegalus 1
Polypterus palmas buttifokeri 1
Polypterus palmas palmas 1
Polypterus palmas polli 1
Polypterus ornatipinnis 1
Polypterus delhezi 1
Polypterus lapradei 1
Polypterus weeksii 1

All of them are ranging from 6"-11" now. I will be adding some more I don't have as of yet when I can find them.

Realistically the domidios would suit my pocket better but I could wait a few months and get some paretroplus if it would cause less hassles. They are also not always available in groups of 8 or more.

As for the substance from wood issues only the bigger piece is new the other two pieces have been in tanks for 3.5 years now and show no obvious signs of leaching. Would crushed coral as part of my sump media help in keeping the water parameters in check?

I am looking at keeping this an african tank without real plants, I might add silk plants to add hiding spots and visual appeal. Perhaps if I left the menarambos and domidios and went for odoe pikes? Would this be a better option for my tank? I will post pics up this weekend.

[sidguppy]

and these are all in 1 tank????

then I wouldn't add any fish if that is the case and I'd also buy several tanks.....the floorspace is crowded!

[Cockroach]

Yes they are all in the same tank. The tank is 6' long and when it starts looking crowded I will move the largest i.e. ornate, endli, congicus and any other lower jaws (over 14") into my 315gal. So the space is not a worry right now.

[sidguppy]

still I withdraw any and all my advice

I cannot support any scenario to put in rare endangered Madagascarian cichlids in this set up.
this is not the kind of fishkeeping I advise nor support.

[Cockroach]

Have you ever heard of responsible fish keeping?

This is the reason I wrote on forums and asked advice from people who know so that I would not be doing anything wrong to the fish. It is not as if I have bought the fish, I thought the idea of forums was to discuss and get information and suggestions, not to be made out like I am an imbecile.

Not once have you asked whether I had other setups ready for fish ( I have more than one setup-some of them empty and ready for when I have to move fish) or if the polys will be staying in their for life.

Thank you for trying to educate someone on this rare and endangered species.

[sidguppy]

Have you ever heard of responsible fish keeping?

yes, I do
unfortunately you yourself have not.

my final comment is that I do not want to be associated with a kind of 'fishkeepin'g'that I do not support, do not advise and do not find fish-friendly at all.

I assumed we were talking about a roomy fishtank with perhaps 2 or 3 polypterus in there and a group of cichlids.
I was wrong.

[Bas Pels]

Dear Cockroach

for your information, Sidguppy has helped a lot of people in this and many other forums. However, just as I myself do, he does expect what is written is what is intended to be written.

You wrote you keep the very long list in a 180 cm tank. I know next to nothing about these polypterus, but it seemed a very loing list for such a rather smallish tank. Google tols me some will grow to over 2 feet

Further you did provide some unclarity yourself, first stating the fish are 6 o 11 inches, and than a few appear to be almost 14 inches

I dont'thin anybody readng what you wrote would assume you have another tank free - besides, I think a 180 * 60 * 60 cm tank is quite small for any fish at a length of 1 foot - and I tend to assume your ampty tank(s) is(are) smaller than the filled one

Therefore I think Sidguppy was not overly fast repelling you, but rather quite patient

[Cockroach]

Thank you to everyone who has replied. I am also grateful to Sidguppy for the help he gave me in earlier posts. Sure I may have been a bit abrasive in my reply and apologize for that, but I am so tired of getting flames on questions about things I have not yet done and to be told he is withdrawing his posts like i am some scolded naughty school boy. I am asking these questions here as other forums were of very little or no help. Thus I turned to you guys and then get answers like I am killing my fish. I want to LEARN and find out IF I am able to care for these fish properly hence all the questions. I even asked if it would be better to then go with Odoe Pike.

As for the unclarity on my part I would like to clarify it. My three largest tanks are as follows:
a 315gal 210cmx68cmx82cm, it has larger old balls in with only one pim cat on the floor space,
the next is my 180gal, 182cmx45cmx82cm, this tank is house my polys which remain for the most part on the substrate, except when venturing up for oxygen. It is a GROWOUT for the larger species. The senegalus, polli, buttikoferi, palmas are rarely seen over a foot. so those will stay the rest when leave to the 315gal when the time is right.
My third tank is a 120gal 180cmx45cmx55cm, this houses 5 clown loaches between 1.5"-4", a sailfin pleco, a small fei feng I am watching for a friend (as he had to leave the country for about 2 months) and a Black ghost knife. So there is some rrom in there for another fish.
I will be picking up another 5' tank this weekend, not sure of the exact dimensions but at least 90gals. It will be empty and ready for anything.

I have been keeping fish since I was 8 years old but only seriously for 4.5 years. I know that is a drop in the ocean compared to some people on the fish forums and I rarely if ever have a sick fish let alone have one die. All my fish are healthy and all are stress free living happy lives. This is one of the reasons I "lashed out" as no one knew this or asked and "assumed". I am new to the IDEA and RESEARCH of keeping Madagascan cichlids so a little patience would be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks to everyone for showing concern and caring about these beautiful fish.

[treehuggingfishlover]

cockroach: at least they replied to your message- I've yet to recieve even a hint of recognition for a few comments I've previously posted.

[Lisachromis]

treehuggingfishlover,

Comments are that, comments. That leaves people the ability to comment back or not. However, if you've asked questions and noone answered, that's different. Did you have questions you were trying to find something out on?

[treehuggingfishlover]

I was just trying to be friendly and perhaps generate a bit of discussion about my juvenile paratilpias. I guess my style is different from the folks here, so I guss I'll check out a different forum.

Take care.

[Lisachromis]

Not trying to drive you away treehuggingfishlover. Was just explaining the difference between the comments and the questions. You seemed to be disappointed as to why people weren't commenting on your posts. I figured if I pointed out that if you asked questions, you may get more responses. But, it's your choice.