p menarambo........

[gregga]

hello.....

I've been keeping and breeding rift lake cichlids for 15 years, in particular wild caught mpimbwe frontosa. About a year ago, I had the fortune to acquire 7 Paratrolus Menarambo through the generosity of Lou Rovner. The fish are currently in the 6" range and growing out in a 90g in my fish room....I think they are ready for the next phase - moving them into one of my larger tanks - 125, 180, 240 or 265. But first, I'd appreciate a little feedback......

Typical breeding size?
Is there a reliable way to sex them (other than venting)?
If a pair breeds/forms, will moving them to a separate take break the pair bond?
Are there spawning triggers?
What is optimal tank size for a breeding pair? how about for the entire colony of 7?
How do they normally do with other fish of similar size and temperament?
Finally, are there any conservation efforts currently going on to re-introduce this fish to the wild?

Any other tidbits appreciated.
gregg

[sidguppy]

Hey Gregg
long time no see

i just got bitten by the Mada-bug myself.
rooted through the book by De Rham & Norissat and through a buckload of articles.

can't help you with all the questions, but for some I found answers;

Typical breeding size?

they should be about ready with you. 6"-8" is mature. they can get bigger, but I've read breeding reports that stated at 6" or so they can begin to breed or at least pairbond

Is there a reliable way to sex them (other than venting)?

not that I'm aware of. I know a tank with fully grown P maculatus wich are 9-10" or so (huge!) and they all look the same.....
P menarambo is really closely related, so it's still a bit of assumption, but I'm afraid venting is the only way.

If a pair breeds/forms, will moving them to a separate take break the pair bond?

the best success (with nourissat for example) is keeping them in a group in a large tank or pond. pairs will form and after rearing fry the fish will group up again.
maybe try it out? I've got bad experiences with transferring mated pairs...it's not just the Tanganyikan Julidochromis wich break bond at the drop of a hat. many, many cichlids flip out.
maybe remove the non-paired ones?

Are there spawning triggers?

I'm quite curious about this myself! Paretroplus seems to be a snaileater (I'm right out of snails atm) and mine (I have maculatus) keep 'playing' with the empty ramshorn shells left over by the granulosus.....
other fish that feed on snails are triggered into breeding when confronted with their favourite food.....I've had great success with Labrochromis ishmaeli for example.
not a Madafish, but they didn't breed until I've fed Ramshorns. they even went after baby Trumpetsnails.
same for Neolamprologus tretocephalus. when fed snails they get really impressive.
start a snail breedery? or relieve someone from a Trumpetsnail infestation; this way it cuts both ways

What is optimal tank size for a breeding pair? how about for the entire colony of 7?

according to Nourissat 1 pair would need at least 400L/100US gallon.
but I think from what I see here that keeping them in a group (you have 7 now) is a much better plan and you'd best go for the largest tank you got.
I have my Paretroplus in a 315G (I have 11) and the group behaviour is incredible. like a peaceful Tropheus, sort of. there's a lot of interesting group action, pairs separate and reintegrate in the group, liplocking, groupgrazing, solo sandblowing behaviour, you name it.
once they swim in the upper parts of the tank the synchronity is amazing.
go for the 265!

How do they normally do with other fish of similar size and temperament?

as far as I can see they do just fine. but if you want to breed....from what I read they're quite bad at parenting. any other fish could snatch the eggs, perhaps?
I got mine with Ptychochromis, halfgrown frontosa's and some catfishes, they do fine. I'vve even seen adults with a 2 feet Arowana and some Oscars without any harassment either way.

Finally, are there any conservation efforts currently going on to re-introduce this fish to the wild?

not that I know of; and their natural habitat is now totally overrun with Channa and Tilapia/Oreochromis.
unless someone manages to eradicate those, I don't see it happening.....the environment has been changed too much, same for the pressure of fishing; too much

I think, like the many Victorians; these are gone for good and we can keep them in captivity like the Prezwalsky Horse or the Red Tailed Shark or the Sumatran Rhino.
their natural habitat is destroyed for ever, overrun by humans, exotics and pollution. it'll be one of those sad reminders that it's all too easy to destroy and almost impossible to create.

[duanest]

My menerambo are @ 12" at maybe 3 years old.

They started spawning at @ 1 year (4-5") all but 1 spawn in the 1st year was infertile, and they ate that fertile spawn within a few hours. There have been a number of spawns since, but never successful.
My latest problem has been, after a fertile spawn was eaten, I tried to separate the pair from the group of 6, this ruined the pair bond, and the group and pair have not been not able to be reunited.

I have found venting is difficult for me (other than at spawning time) because of the sharp keel shape.

[sidguppy]

your observation fits my educated guess and experience with other cichlids wich havce a firce character to speciesmembers; and Nourissat's success in breeding them in larger groups: best not to mess around with a settled group seems to be the norm.......

and obviously housing them in a huge tank.

how big is your tank, Duanest?

[duanest]

My tank is only 150 gallons, and this may be the problem with raising fry.

By the way my menerambo almost always spawned between Dec and Mar.
At this point the way the menerambo are estranged, I've pretty much given up, andI'm concentrating on a group of 6 Paretroplus kieneri.

[gregga]

sid.....

very helpful information...thank you.

All 7 will be moving into a bigger tank this weekend. how do you aquascape your tank? rocks? pots? driftwood? plants?

BTW, I also have some P. Polleni, about 3"-4", growing out as well. can they co-exist in the 125 with the menarambo?

I'll try to post some pics shortly.

regards, gregg

[sidguppy]

dunno about the polleni

I was advised not to combine Paratilapia's with Paretroplus on the Madagroup AFc and those people definitely know their stuff
it's tempting though, because I know a LFS with beautiful polleni's......same where I got my Damba's and grandidieri.

can't help you there! but you got several tanks.
polleni's are like old boots, they fit in anywhere; if they start going nasty, move them to another tank?

according to them all Paratilapia's get really large. seems like all species reach the 1 foot mark or close.
according to Michael Negrini their behaviour is like the Oscar, a slowmoving easy going fish with strong piscivore tendencies.....
right until they start to breed and then they supposedly turn into something like Aequidens rivulatus aka the Green Terrorist.

my tank is a combination of large rocks, fine sand and hge pieces of used wood
used because now it's not leaking massive amounts of peat-acids. I specifically asked on a Dutch forum for wood wich had been in use for a long time and I got exactly that
I also have a load of crushed shells and marble in my biofilter between the pumic stone wich I use as home for the bacteria.
so the wood and the marble balance each other (I hope).
so far even the Tanganyikan catfishes do fine and these are my warning signs; if the water should get acidic I should see it on them.

I only use pottery and such in breeding tanks, currently I only have 1 breeding tank. all my Mada's are young, so no fry yet.
that's OK. in time I'll arrange a proper breeder, but in my showtank I want to see a "piece of river".

I got my own topic with a load of pix!
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4490&p=27577#p27577

greetz
alex

[gregga]

my menarambo have gone into breeding mode again. In the past, I've left the group alone, but I'm wondering what do you think about pulling the non-breeding fish out of the tank?