Intersting chanchito... any info?

[tjudy]

Please refer to the following link to see the pictures of a fish described as "Cichlosoma oblongus". That species is not listed in the catalog here. These fish's owner (Mike Duffy) and I and lots of other people would lke to know more about this fish. Mike got them from Tangled Up In Cichlids (Jeff Rapps).

http://208.51.130.220/~mojo/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=Photo;action=display;num=1108571038

Anyone have information about this fish? Is it indeed C. oblongus? Where is it from?

[Ken Boorman]

If you could post the pic somewhere you don't have to be a member to visit it would help

Ken

[tjudy]

I do not own the pictures.. but I will ask mike to link them here. If you are interested in CA/SA cichlids the http://www.aquamojo.forum is a good one...

[Philippe Burnel]

For the time being,"Cichlasoma" oblongum is considered as junior synonym of "Cichlasoma" facetum.

Here is a pic I made a long time ago in a Cichlid show in Belgium, at this time it was labelled as oblongum

[Trainer]

Hello,

Firstly, thank you Ted for posting for me. I am the owner of the fish Ted mentions. The fish change colors as if chameleons. These pictures are of the male in breeding dress, and of the female immediately post-spawn. Any information you could share on these fish would be greatly appreciated.

Mike

[tjudy]

I admit to knowing next to nothing about this fish or any other chanchito. I cannot recall ever having kept any. Finding published information on C. 'oblongus' or 'oblongum' is not easy. There does not seem to be a lot out there. Here is a little that I have gleaned...

In 1982 Loiselle published an article in FAMA ("Those Other South American Cichilds", Oct. 1982) in which he described a fish he called 'C. oblongum' as being from Brazil, and talked about it separately from C. facetum.

Wayne Leibel talked about the fish in a Goin' South column (9/1996) where he described C. oblongus as being separate from C. facetum. However, Wayne did mention that Kullander (1983) lumped oblongus into the facetum species. Wayne went on to question facetum and oblongus being synonyms.

I found it interesting to read from Leibel and Loiselle that the fish is Brazillian. I was under the impression that it is Argentinian. I can ask Jef Rapps where he got them.

Like I said... not much out there. I found as many mentions that there was one species (facetum) that contained many types as I did mentions that oblongus is a separate species from facetum.

[tjudy]

The word from Jeff is that these fish were imported from the Sao Paulo, Braxil, area.

[Philippe Burnel]

As last year Kullander described a new chanchito ("Cichlasoma" scitulum) it's possible that, in the same way, he changed his point of view about the synonimy of oblogum/facetum.
I think I have the description so I'll try to find it to have a look.

[michi tobler]

Hi all,

as far as I know, a graduate student of Kullander, Oldrich Rican, is currently working intensively on the facetum-group. So we may not only expect a couple of new species names but hopefully also a valid genus name.

Regarding the taxon C. oblongus: I never heared of that and I doubt if this a validly published name. It is neither listed in the recent CLOFFSCA nor on fishbase. I can just guess but maybe the taxon was described by Kullander in the unpublished part of his dissertation?

Greetings, Michi

[Philippe Burnel]

Chromis oblonga Castelnau, 1855.

in Esmeyer :
oblonga, Chromys Castelnau 1855:14 [Exped. Amer. Sud. v. 2; ref. 766]. Rio Tocantins, Goiás, Brazil. Holotype (unique): MNHN A-9485. Type catalog: Blanc 1962:205 [ref. 20868], Bauchot et al. 1978:46 [ref. 20862]. Species inquirenda in Cichlasoma -- (Kullander in Reis et al. 2003:625 [ref. 27061], Rícon & Kullander 2003:794 [ref. 27259]). Cichlasoma. Cichlidae.


Good news for this new genus (and species))

[michi tobler]

Hi Philippe,

thanks for that info... I must have been blind;o))

In the CLOFFSCA, Kullander notes: Species similar to C. facetum, not found since in the Tocantins River drainage.

I'm sorry for the confusion....

Greetings, Michi

[Paulo José Alves]

Hi


The picture of Philipe burnel depicts a Cichlasoma facetum, a comon species here in south Portugal´s waters. If that is C. oblongus then it is no more than a synonim.
Trainer´s picture is of a completely diferent fish.

[Philippe Burnel]

I think it would be very interesting to submit Trainer's pics to Kullander as it seems that his team is working on the "facetum group"

[tjudy]

One thing to note is that Trainer's pictures are of the fish in spawnign colors. Jeff Rapps has a picture of the fish not spawning in the gallery of his site http://www.tangledupincichlids.com. They have more barring and less yellow. I am assuming that they are the same fish, as Trainer got his from Jeff, and Jeff has told me that they are from the same country of origin (though I know that a country is a large place, and local collection sites could be very different).

[Trainer]

I would like to thank everyone for taking such an interest in both these fish and helping me learn more about them. As Ted mentioned, the fish in the first group of photos are showing spawning coloration. Here are two pictures of the dominant male in standard, non-breeding dress. The base color shows slightly yellow in these pictures, though the fish in person looks more olive-colored to me.

[Juan Artigas]

What a wonderful fish, I asked Sven Kullander for any hint about the identification and he was kind enough to give me the following information:

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Sorry not to be of much help with this one:

(1) yes, the photos show a C. facetum group species.
(2) it is probably from north of the area where we worked, and there are many forms/species in the São Paulo area and slightly northward which have not been documented. A Brazilian student presented a Masters thesis of them many years ago, but I do not possess a copy, and I forgot the name of the student. Seems to have only 6 anal spines which is compatible with such a range.
(3) I am familiar with the Uruguay and Paraná basin forms, and none of them to my knowledge has this breeding color.
(4) a PhD candidate of mine did produce a licentiate thesis (= halfway PhD) which was a revision of that southern part of the facetum group. He suddenly left the university and museum just before obtaining the degree nearly a year ago, and we have no idea where he is or is up to now. He is said to have collected or had plans to collect in Mexico late last year.

Best regards
Sven

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So, we have another mystery to resolve! Thanks so much for posting your wonderful pictures!

[tjudy]

Very interesting. Looks like Trainer has a unique fish. I do not know a lot about chanchitos... is this fish small for the genus?

[Paulo José Alves]

Hi


The biggest wild male C. facetum I´ve seen was about 15 cm.

[jptsr1]

Looks like I’m a little late to this conversation but I am also looking for any info regarding Chanchito or Cichlasoma facetum (if that is in fact what these are). I’ve looked all over the net and gotten some general info but I would love to hear from someone who has the fish in their tank as to what this fish is like.

J.

[aquaticwonders]

These fish look amazing!

Seen these on Jeffs list and was tempted to buy some myself, he also has a species called Cichlasoma Quarei

Has anyone had experiences with these?

I've never kept any Chanchito species before, i find them very appealing though. How many descibed species are there?

wayne