P. polleni question(s)

[Francesco Zezza]

Hi all,

I have a pair (hopefully) fo P. polleni, I've if been "given" them as is they are "small spot", having had - in the past - both the "Small Spot - East cost" (those days) and the "Large Spot - Andapa" (again those days) I won't bet on them being 100% pure (like the previous fishes coming from JCN tanks), but this in NOT the key-poin.

1) Pair is, about, 2 years old. Male/large specimens 15 cm or so; Female/small specimens 5/7 cm or so.
2) fishes are kept ina 300 lt tank (heavily planted to allow the female correct hiding chances).
3) tank mates are a pair of large albino Ancistrus and a group of P. interruptus (Congo Tetra).

This being said I'll introduce what I've noticed:

A) The different size puzzles me a lot: I understand the male has to be bigger but a ratio of 1:3 (or even 1:4), aka the male being three, at least, times the female is - as I said - puzzling at least.
B) I think I'm facing a pair because of different sizes, fins shape, behavior and moroever because, as far as I know, two males won't survive in that kind (size) of tank.
C) The female/small fish tend to stay in the dark/shadowed areas while the male (else, the bigger fisk) patrols the tank, every now and then chasing his "mate" but NEVER till the point to make me worry (another clue - IMO - it's a pair) for her safety.
D) The male/bigger fish is, on the other hand, more and more actively chasing my P. interruptus (I had to count two "losses") and stays, more'n more, often still above the small fish (as if he was checking the going in the tank).
E) The small one - insterad - stays (relatively) calm half hidden under a bogwood/lot of Anubias moving back/forth in the more crammed (plants/woods) part of the tank.
F) The large fish is, almost always in the last days, wearing his ink-black livery ("tilapine dot" - forgive my english! - under this circumstances is almost impossible to spot), while the small fish is a more pale with the spot easier to distinguish (of course, I'd dare to add)
G) Both fish (more the larger one) feed eagerly on alnost everything is offered ...

Fishes (and were the only two, sizes 1,5 cm or so) were - about two years ago - rescued on their way to a "Malawi Mix TanK" ...

Could, kindly, any of You give me some esplications/hints? Am I caring a pair or what? And in this case (I have a pair) what's going on in the tank? Are fishes on their way to mate/fight/else?

TIA.
Francesco

[polleni]

Hi Francesco,

My guess is that when your male kills all the other fish in the tank, he will spawn with the female. Typical procedure... When the Paratilapias think they can eventually get the whole tank to themselves, this becomes their top priority, before breeding. It is summer, the temperature of the water is up, perfect for Paratilapia spawning. If they start, you should be very careful. During one summer my Paratilapia sp. Andapa bred three times.. and I barely saved the female when she tried to save the fry. With the P. small spot, I have seen the egg clutch twice, always in summer, but didn't succeed in / care enough to save the fry.

Just my 2 cents here..

[Francesco Zezza]

Hi my friend (I guess it's You!)

I wish You're right ... I've been waiting for my poleni to spawn from such a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time (and You should know it pretty well!), this being said:

I'll be off ten days (from Friday 16th) so fishes will be left alone or so (Stefania's sister is supposed to be feeding fishes) and this, IMHO, should help them (as far as I know all polleni like to stay away from the crowd): we'll see ...

Are You concerned ALSO about catfishes (XL albino ancistrus pair I care a lot): I'd try to be "positive" on them since they have hiding spot (lot of choices) where the "black guy" (and the doll too!) can't even tihnk to enter ... GOTTA take a pic of this tank to make things more clear ...

Back to the black pair: what makes my suspect we're still away from the "target" is the fact the female (99,9% of times) upon meeting the male hurry back to hide without - from both of them! - no sign, at all, of displaying and, morover, looking to her belly You won't say is carrying eggs waiting to be laid ...

[polleni]

Hello my dearest friend, of course it is me..

Well, the sign that will tell you the fish are about to breed is the female approaching the male and giving him sort of a kiss on his cheek. If you see this, it is a matter of days (or even hours). The color of the male is not a sure bet. The color of the female is something you can trust more. Jet black with bright yellow at the edge of the dorsal fin. Even this is not 100% guaranteed - the kiss is !

About the catfish, I don't know what the effect of their presence might be. Every time I bred them, there was no catfish in the tank, even in huge tanks. Mind you, the only time I managed to see the fry 3 months old (no losses) with both parents in the tank (!!) is in a 1300 L (2.5 m long) tank with just the pair in it. Otherwise, the male will not be patient for such a long time, anything over 20 days means risk.

In contrast, I have noticed that my Paretroplines don't care about catfish, they will breed anyway (Pe damii, Pe maculatus, Pe menarambo, Pe nourissati) but in this respect, they are far more capable in keeping them away from their eggs for two reasons. First, their eggs are attached, which means they can move close to them withour the eggs floating around (as the Paratilapia's eggs will do). Second, the Paretroplines, can cause pain and severe injuries to the catfish (even large ones), something the Paratilapias can't do (they lack this pair of teeth..).

If you feel your Paratilapias are on their way to breed, I wouldn't recommend removing the catfish from their tank. Any interference now might stop the process. The fact you will be away for 10 days is a good thing for them. Indeed, they prefer to be on their own !

I wish you the best possible result..

[ciclasoman]

Hello Francesco and George:
I do agree that the male will chase and kill any fish in the tank prior to spawning and this may include the female Paratilapia if she can't find shelter. I have removed fish right before spawning but only in the still of the night once the fish have been resting with the lights out at least 2 hrs, they are easier to catch- in the case of the catfish this may prove difficult. I have observed the male take on the duties of protecting the egg clutch and chasing the female away only to reverse fry care after a week or two- it is at this time or soon after that the female can be in extreme danger of dying so multiple hidding places must be provided.
Best of luck
Jose

[Francesco Zezza]

I've been away for ten days: during this stretch of time the pair (likely the male!) killed six - out of severn - of P. interruptus (Congo Tetra) living in the tank (poor fellows, pity'em!!!) , upon my return the tank liked - how can I say - "muddy" and nasty smelling ... after a large water change th going turned, once more, "normal"!!! The only survivor has been (of course) moved elsewhere. Back to cichlids now ...

1) The male is - almots alway - ink black on the contrary the female is - really often - grey/blakish (always paler then the male any way),
2) since the female has some hiding places wher the male can't enter I'm considering to leave the going like this ...

Also because every now and them the female (generally is the first one to go) enters an area of the tank completely hidden to (my) sight: once fish(es) are/is back there You can only guess thery're there, when she is "in" the male goes behind, under this circumstances he is - rather uncommon I have to add - calm, slow in his movements (I'd dare to say delicate) ... The female also (noticed this detail too, once back) seems to have the oviduct some way protruding.

At the moment what is - IMO - missing is a bit of (black) colour on the female and the appearance of a bit of displaying (by both)!!! Any way, so far so good ...