Muhuru=greenwoodi, red tail=Ptyochromis

Discussion about cichlids from Lake Victoria

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Muhuru=greenwoodi, red tail=Ptyochromis

Postby Christophe de Medeiros » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:31 am

Hi every one
just a short thing to say. I see that H.sp"purple princess" aka H.sp"Muhuru" is called Neochromis omnicaruleus Ruty. I seriously doubt about this identification. the ruti population of Neochromis exhibit red in the pelvic's finn but not in the caudal fin. Also the head doesn't correspond to me to a Neochromis omnicaruleus but rather to Neochromis geenwoodi, the colour distribution also match the grenwoodi species.If the Muhuru locatyion is a littoral zone then It can't be a omnicaruleus population(this species lives in the offshores islands and not in the littoral shores) :D
the H.sp"red tail sheller" is placed in the Platytaeniodus genus, well, it doesn't fit at all the dental pattern nor the head morphology but seems rather closer to the genus Ptyochromis and seems close in many aspect to H.granti( the lips form, the dental pattern seems similar)
we don't have to forget that Platytaeniodus is a monotypic genus as greenwood stated.
xris :)
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Re: Muhuru=greenwoodi, red tail=Ptyochromis

Postby Greg Steeves » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:37 pm

Hi Chris

The "purple princess" is Pseudocrenilabrus multicolor victoriae. I have no idea where the name purple princess came from. I think you could be correct on the tricolor fulu possibly being Neochromis greenwoodi. It's a beautiful fish that we need to look at closer.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the red tail sheller though. It's not the teeth themselves but rather that unique pattern of the upper and lower jaw (horseshoe shaped) that conform to Platytaeniodus. Monotypic means only one species known. That is not to say that undiscovered species don't exist. Now that we have both the degeni and sp. "red tail sheller" it's not monotypic anymore. :D
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Re: Muhuru=greenwoodi, red tail=Ptyochromis

Postby dbrummitt » Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:10 pm

Don't mean to intrude but the purple princess is also going around the area in OHio. What myself and few others have come up with are that they are most likely "Purple Yellows" or a version of astatotilapia calliptera from Malawi. Here is a pic of the one male of the pair i had. Maybe this will help with the name as for it is definetly not a dwarf.

Image
female

Image
Image
male
Fish and Disc Golf, what else do I need?
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Re: Muhuru=greenwoodi, red tail=Ptyochromis

Postby Christophe de Medeiros » Sat Oct 17, 2009 8:57 am

Hi Greg
I'm happy to discuss with you about this question.
As Boulenger and Regan stated, (Greenwood used this diagnose) the premaxilla and the tooth pattern are diagnostic for the genus Platytaeniodus. It distinguishes Platytaeniodus from Haplochromis by a more stouter premaxilla and a wider dentigerous surface, It says "the alveolar surface of the premaxilla widening toward the pharynx, the band of teeth in the upper jaw horseshoe shaped.."
Grenwood stated:" posteriorly the teeth are arranged in several rows, so that the premaxillary tooth band is always clearly U shaped, with the arms at least as broad as the medial part. Broadening of the posterior alveolar surface is gradual and shows positive allometry with standard lenght....
tooth band in the lower jaw are more readily diagnostic and less subject to variation with absolute size than those of the premaxilla. In Platytaeniodus the mandibular teeth are confined to the anterior and antero-lateral portions of the dentary and are grouped into two broad and roughly pyriform patches, contiguous at the symphysis, posteriorly there is a short, single row of four to seven teeth lying between the ascending part of the ramus and the anterior tooth bands"
This is the genus Platytaeniodus diagnose( the teeth form, number of rows and structure are a part of the diagnose)
From what I observed in the dental pattern of H,sp"red tail sheller", there is 2 to 6 rows of unicuspids tooth with strongly recurved tips , with bicuspids and tricuspids tooth in the postero lateral rows( this lateral tooth are unicuspids in degeni). Also the cranial measurements showed that the pre orbital depht was arround 17-18% of the head lenght, the interorbital width was arround 27 % of the head lenght, the eye diameter ranged between 25-27 % of the head surface, all this measurements and the tooth form and organisation show for me that red tail is closer to Ptyochromis subgenus than to Platytaeniodus(the most important difference is in the tooth form, number of rows, dental oganisation, premaxilla and maxilla form, in red tail the dentigerous surface doesn't show the typical U pattern observed in Platytaeniodus).
fom what I saw in H.sp"red tail sheller" I can't say that it belongs to the Platytaeniodus genus, it is too far from the dental pattern, and jaws form(the upper jaw being a little longer than the inferior jaw in Platytaeniodus degeni, they are off equal lenght in red tail sheller) H.sp"red tail sheller" has some similarities with H.granti in the tooth forms, numbers of rows,dental organisation and cranial measurments. :D
xris :D
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Re: Muhuru=greenwoodi, red tail=Ptyochromis

Postby Christophe de Medeiros » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:11 am

Hi
Another point I have to say, I 've searched for Muhuru location point, it seems to be a bay in the littoral zone near Migori, Kenya. So that H.sp"Muhuru" can't be an omnicaruleus species at all as this species is confined in off shores islands.
xris :D
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Re: Muhuru=greenwoodi, red tail=Ptyochromis

Postby Greg Steeves » Sat Oct 17, 2009 9:41 am

Looks like we have the same books. :lol:
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Re: Muhuru=greenwoodi, red tail=Ptyochromis

Postby Christophe de Medeiros » Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:12 am

yes I think so :lol:
xris :D
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