Need Positive Identification -'Pundamilia Nyererei' Variant?

[Prophet7]

I bought 2 of these fish from my LFS under the Generic Name that most Vics seem to get here, 'Flamebacks'. I thought even as Juvies that they displayed traits of P. Nyererei and as they grew I became more sure that that is what they are. I would just like to know if I am definitely right about them, and what region that they would be from. As I always like to know exactly what fish I am keeping and if they are of a pure bloodline (Hate Hybrids) especially with the Vics.
My best guess is an Igombe Island variant.

Dominant Male

Dominant Male

Sub-Dominant Male

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry about the horrible photo's, it was all I had to work with. Their colours are actually much more vivid, but the photo makes them appear washed out. (Cheap Digital Camera).

Also, I know it's a long shot, but does anybody know a good supplier of Vics here in Australia? Someone who might even know what they are talking about?
Thanks in advance.

Dean.

[Greg Steeves]

Hi Dean


While the bright red coloration and vertical stripes screams P nyererei, there is something about those fish that does not look quite right to me. Do you know the source and is it possible that these might be a nyererei/sp. "thick skin" cross?

[Lisachromis]

I got to thinking about these fish and they just seem to be 'off' for being pure nyererei. The snout is too pointy. They have black blotches near/on the dorsal. That's not a characteristic for nyererei (if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be corrected).

I would say they are crosses imho . Very pretty fish, but crosses. As to good sources for Australian viccies? I don't know any.

[Prophet7]

Thanks for your replies, I can see certain characteristics of the sp. 44 in them Greg but apart from being slightly more defined in their markings, including the Vertical Barring continuing up into their Dorsal Fins, (when the sub-dominant male tangles with the dominant male his barring comes into view to the point I can't tell them apart, they look EXACTLY the same), I thought that they looked remarkably similar to a photo of yours Greg on Hill Country Cichlid Club http://www.hillcountrycichlidclub.com/a ... ererei.pdf bottom of Page 2.
As for their source, they were from the LFS but ultimately from one of the largest fish wholesalers in my area. This wholesaler is not known for selling hybrids, but imho are guilty of mis-labelling / mis-naming of fish, particularly Vics & to a certain degree Tangs.
I was sold this fish through another shop, but found out later that it came from the same wholesaler, as a Xystichromis Phytophagus.

Sold as Xystichromis Phytophagus ??? - All three Pics, the same fish.

Once again sorry for the horrible photo's.

The more it grows in size and confidence/colour I am more and more positive it is not what they sold it as, as I have been after the X. Phyto (Christmas Fulu) for quite awhile to breed.

I am put in a position, where Vics are concerened that I can't seem to have confidence in getting the Pure Victorians that I love so much.
Lake Victorian Cichlids are Awesome. But the only store I have a lot of confidence in doesn't really do many Vics.
So I am left to get what I can, then try and figure out, with the help more knowledgable people such as yourselves to help me figure out if they are good fish.
I am currently just starting out with attempting to breed my first Victorians with Astatotilapia Latifasciata, they are the only Victorians I have that I am sure that is what they are.
Thanks again for your comments, if you have anything else to input, on either of these fish, I welcome anything you have to say.

Dean.

[Greg Steeves]

Dean, back to the nyererei. When in a dominant coloration, all nyererei variants I've kept obtain a black underbelly right up to the lower jaw. Also, the third photo is very suspect as, even when young, these Pundamilia show prevalent dark barring. When dominance issues become a factor with males in a group, even the sub dominant fish that get battered show these bars. Your fish really look to have a lot of Astatotilapia sp. "thick skin", sp. "tomato" or similar fish. I am really sorry to sound so negative because I have seen other posts on here where "hybrid" is the way to describe anything one is not certain of and I would personally like to hear one say "I don't know" rather than the former. That said, I will stick to my guns here

I would like to hear much more about the Lake Victorian cichlid scene in Australia. Is there a big following? What species are available? Are the regulations involving bringing fish in the country still as strict as there were a few years ago?

Thanks in advance
Greg

[Endymion]

This is a first generation hybrid between a male p.nyererei and and female H. sp. "thickskin". But I think the fish look like a second generation hybrid between nyererei and thickskin.

[Prophet7]

Thank you all for your help, I guess I'll just have to live with the fact I got gipped again on a purchase of Victorian Cichlids.
They are nice fish though, the dominant male is also very entertaining, and yesterday just got together with an unidentified female Victorian, and now she's holding. I'm not removing her from the main tank as I am really not interested in Hybrids. The fry will just have to take their chances.

Greg, the Victorian Cichlid scene in Australia, or at least in Brisbane (where I live) is actually pretty poor, there is a decent following here what I can gather, I run into people at the Queensland Cichlid Club gatherings who are avid Vic. Cich. fans, but getting them is another matter.
As you can see from the two fish I posted in this one thread, wholesalers are terrible, and yes, the regulations involving bringing fish in the country are still as strict as ever, probably even more so now (with a new banned list with more names on it being released just the other week), so we have to rely on breeders, they being few. As a result, when we actually do manage to find a pure Victorian breed from a breeder, the price can be quite high.
The regulations toward a lot of Cichlids (African or American) in this country are quite strict, usually a total ban on import or export, meaning, once again a heavy reliance on those already breeding particular types of Cichlids. Though of course you hear about people who 'can get anything you want', as I'm sure those types of people exist in every country.

On the bright side for me personally I just acquired 4 female Astatotilapia Latifasciata to go with the male I already had. I found another Male but they wanted $45.00 for him, and I am pretty sure I get another male and 2 more females for about that from another source.
Better yet I also have just gained 2 small male Xystichromis Phytophagus that show every sign of looking just like the 2 photo's of them on http://www.africancichlids.net , just need to get some females now from the same supplier. (I have been trying to get X. Phytophagus for about 6 Months now) Looks like I finally got what I paid for.

As for other Vic breeds, not too many that I can find, a few Pundamilia variants, I don't pretend to know everything that's available here but I do know it's hard to find very many as I have been exhaustively to many different places, even in smaller towns outside of Brisbane (you never know your luck). I have been trying for 6-7 months to find Enterochromis sp. 'Red Back Scraper' but so far haven't been able to find out one way or another if it's even available in Australia.
I am also trying to get Astatotilapia Calliptera for breeding purposes, just because I really like them and as far as I am aware is the only Lake Malawi Cichlid to be related to the Victorian Breeds, in fact a Sister Fish to the Victorian Breeds. I know they can be found here, as a mate has 1 male but this also is proving a hard find for me.

Ad Konings just did a great talk/seminar here in Brisbane, but unfortunately not much on Victorians.

Thanks again for your help Greg, and Lisachromis and Endymion. If there is anything else you'd like to know about the Australian Cichlid scene or anything else, just let me know. And if anyone wants to have a stab at identifying the second fish in here, that'd be great (even if it's another Hybrid).

Cheers,

Dean.

[Christophe de Medeiros]

Hi Dean
The snout seems too pointed to me to be a H.phytophagus and the dorsal fin lacks the electric blue color that is supposed to be. Yu may find a black variant but normally this species carries a bright red flank.
xris

[bignorm64]

the photos of the darker fish look exactly like a sub dominant male xystochromis i had,i sold him because he was miserable with the dominant male always attacking him.even moving him to another tank failed to bring out any colour in him.is this normal?ihave a female nyererei holding what i think will be a hybrid with the fulu i kept.i bought the nyererei thinking it was a male,obviosly i was wrong.what i am wondering is can i expect only one colourful male(dominant)out of this batch of fry

[awilson0001]

this is a Pundamilia Nyererei to compare colors to yours...