Help with Retroculus xinguensis

[fishman76092]

I have 11 coming to me on Sunday-about 3" from what I'm told. I'm planning on changing a 180g planted tank over to try to breed these. I'd like to keep some of the well established plants along with the fish-mostly lotus and Crypts. They should help with the water quality as well. I plan on adding Flourish Excel to my dosing schedule and remove the bottle of CO2 that I currently use. Im also adding a trickle filter to supplement the canister I currently run.

Here is the big question-Can I leave the Eco Complete plant gravel in the tank. Im aware of the sifting, but Ive kept other geos on gravel will little problem. Grain size is fairly small. I wont have luck growing the plants in the sand and Id like to have the best of both worlds. Much less maintenance as well. Im not worried about them uprooting these as the root balls are 6" wide and 4" deep.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Bas Pels]

Id like to have the best of both worlds.

this is something you should forget, having Retroculus.

They come from fast moving water - thus they need fast moving water, and that should be clean. Fast moving water moves over 1 meter a second - or 3,5 feet. That is, 3,6 km an hour, or 2 1/4 mile. I think you better have a filter capacity over 5 times the content of your tank an hour, which tank is supposed to be roomy - the fish can be territorial amongst themselves, and change 1/3 of the water a week

Plants normally don't like such conditions, and therefore you best remouve them before - and the plant gravel - which gives plant fertiliser to the water, put differently, pollutes the water, with them

However, R xinguensis are in my to 5 of all sout american fishes - they are worth it

[Klaus Steinhaus]

I have only one question: WHERE DID YOU GET THESE??????????????????

These fish are at the very top of my "wanted list" for a long time.

[fishman76092]

I ordered them along with Geo argyrostictus on a random wild SA fish list from a local importer 6-7 months ago. He was told by his supplier that they were very difficult to catch and not to hold my breath. Well, out of the blue I saw that he had gotten 23 of them in. I got 11 and a guy in Oklahoma got 12. Ive seen photos and video of them in the tank-they look right. We shall see. He is bringing them to my house on Sunday.

[fishman76092]

Id like to have the best of both worlds.

this is something you should forget, having Retroculus.

They come from fast moving water - thus they need fast moving water, and that should be clean. Fast moving water moves over 1 meter a second - or 3,5 feet. That is, 3,6 km an hour, or 2 1/4 mile. I think you better have a filter capacity over 5 times the content of your tank an hour, which tank is supposed to be roomy - the fish can be territorial amongst themselves, and change 1/3 of the water a week

Plants normally don't like such conditions, and therefore you best remouve them before - and the plant gravel - which gives plant fertiliser to the water, put differently, pollutes the water, with them

However, R xinguensis are in my to 5 of all sout american fishes - they are worth it

Ill have plenty of turnover and oxygenation of the water. I read in Weidner's book that the oxygen content of the water was much more important than the movement. Given their propensity to have issues with anything but pristine water conditions, I thought the plants would be a good thing as they seem to be nitrate hogs. I've got a call into Lee Newman in Vancouver to get his thoughts as well. Thanks for the help.

[Marko Lenac]

I have for a year lapidifer in a thank with some g. altifrons Curua and all I can say is that they don't need much current. on the other side if you don't have current they will never exhibit all of their natural behavior. the trickle filter is a good idea for having oxygenated water. I use it as well with one canister filter and a large powerhead driven sponge filter. and you must change a LOT of water.

[newmanl]

There's not really a lot I can add to what already been said. I'm not familiar with the "Eco Complete" substrate, but as long as it fine enough for sifting and functions as a root fertilizer and not a water column food source for plants, I don't see the harm in using it.

I will add, that once your fish get to about 5-6" or so, you may want to thin them out as you probably know, 11 is way too many for a 180. Once mine hit 6" I only kept 7 (out of 10) and that was in a 300. As for water flow, while it may appear they don't really need it (oxygen sat being considered more important), they certainly seem to enjoy it. I'd have as much flow as possible - and a trickle filter, along with large regular water changes, would be good as already stated. Also, make sure you feed them lots - bloodworms, brineshrimp and other smaller items. Gut content analysis work shows they are predominantly larval insect eaters in the wild - so no big chunky food items as they will likely have a hard time processing them for swallowing. Lastly, consider making a gelatin based diet - I used a slightly modified variation on the one out of "Enjoying Cichlids", edited by Ad Konings. It works really well.

Best of luck with the Retroculus xinguensis - they're a great fish!

Here's a quick photo of my female with her fry.

[Marko Lenac]

Lastly, consider making a gelatin based diet - I used a slightly modified variation on the one out of "Enjoying Cichlids", edited by Ad Konings. It works really well.

Best of luck with the Retroculus xinguensis - they're a great fish!

can you tell as the alteration you do as I use it as well. I feed also a lot of white mosquito larvae.

[fishman76092]

Lee, thanks for the info. They arrived this morning and are doing well. The substrate is fairly fine and they are sifting through it constantly. I planned on thinning them out as you said-I heard they bloat easily when fed anything but veggie-based foods. Better to get too many than too few.... Good to know you can get away with brine and bloodworms. I also have some mysis that ill break up. Ive got a lot of water movement currently-trickle filter, canister and a UV sterilizer which is causing a bit of havoc for the plants (as mentioned), but I cut them back a bit. I've made the shrimp mix before-Ill see what changes you do and make some this week.

The importer, who is Brazilian and lives in the Ft Worth area brought them over today-he said that they were collected at Altamira.

Here is a pic of the tank and a couple closeups right out of the bag-

[newmanl]

The changes or modifications I make to the recipe are minor: 50% frozen green peas, 50% frozen krill (Euphasia superba) and then I add 6, 500mg Chlorella tablets that I get from the health food store, some kind of cichlid pellets food (whatever I happen to have on hand) and then thicken the mixture as I blend it with Omega Sea flakes (veggie or freshwater).

I've haven't heard that Retroculus would bloat if not only fed veggies, but it makes no sense. In the wild, Retroculus are predominantly meat eaters - mostly filling their guts with aquatic insect larvae (chironomids). I suspect that if people are having bloat problems with their Retroculus that it would likely be the result of water quality issues.

Hope that helps.

Lee

[Heiko Bleher]

Hi,

this is Heiko Bleher and I just wanted to tell the Retroculus owner the following:

They do not live in the very strong currant and when they build their nests in the sandy ground (which I cannot see in your aquarium), they do it in the bay, were the water is only very slowly flowing. So You do not need to worry about that.

I have collected many Retroculus (and not only in the Xingú), also two new still un-described species, and hopefully the people who invited me in your Country (I guess you are from Canada) will as me to talk also about that. Than you should come, as I will show how they live in nature and the varieties found.

The lectures will take place in Toronto on July 26th (Saturday), as I am coming from Motreal that day, were I give presentation to the ASIH 2008.

All the very best,

from a colelctor

Heiko Bleher
www.aquapress-bleher.com

[Marko Lenac]

that is a lecture and photos I would really like and enjoy to see....

[Esben]

I got 4 of these beautiful cichlids for some weeks ago. They are in a 900 l. with a Eheim 2080 and at Tunze Stream powerhead at 6000 l/h.

I really look forward to see them grow up.

Have they ever been spawned in capacity?

Esben

[Klaus Steinhaus]

Have they ever been spawned in capacity?

Lee Newman in Vancouver, Canada has spawned them. See his (newmanl)post and pictures in this topic.