Fun with Paratheraps Bifasciatum!

[TheFishGuy]

Thank you

[cedricguppy]

Hello :

Paratheraps fenestratus or Vieja fenestrata?? I myself lost a little!

It's the same fish

What genus name one uses, has to do with opinions on details which may best be kept out of this discussion. All speciesnames for central american cichlids are used only once. Therefore, whatever genus, of you recognize the species name, it must be the same fish.

The fifference between fenestratus and fenestrata (you can also find fenestratum) has to do with grammar: the genus has a grammatical gender, and the species name will have to adapt

Again, nothing to worry about

We speak the same fish ok. But is there a recent classification of the genus name for this species??

On parle du même poissons ok. mais exist-il une publication récente de la classification du nom de genre de cette espèce ???

[TheFishGuy]

cedricguppy, every time I spaek about these fish I refer to the whole complex, vieja, theraps, pratheraps and chuco. I believe at one time they were all refered to as theraps... Who knows what will be next... Sometimes I wish this complex wasn't my favorite LOL

[EC]

Not very clear but these are bifasciatus from Rio Chacamax:
http://waterpollo.blogspot.com/2010/02/ ... iatus.html

Ciao Enrico

www.waterpollo.blogspot.com

[TheFishGuy]

They look just like the one I have... I get that view quite often from the surface of the tank...

[Dan Woodland]

They look just like the one I have... I get that view quite often from the surface of the tank...

That's the problem, they "look" like the one you have. As Willem said, "If you want to adhere to the purists' point of view there will be no breeding without exact knowledge of the provenance of your fish. If you don't know where they come from, don't breed them" and I'll add if not then http://www.cichlidae.com/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&f=4&p=46107#pr46010

[TheFishGuy]

Oh, yeah... I'm not going to breed any of them... To give away or sell at least...

[cedricguppy]

cedricguppy, every time I spaek about these fish I refer to the whole complex, vieja, theraps, pratheraps and chuco. I believe at one time they were all refered to as theraps... Who knows what will be next... Sometimes I wish this complex wasn't my favorite LOL

Ok je comprends, plusieurs complexes posent des problèmes similaires à l'heure actuelle, aussi bien en Amérique que en Afrique.

Ok I understand, more complex facing similar problems today, both in America than in Africa.

[LewC]

No population of Paratheraps bifasciatus can be the "best" representative of the species. Too much variability.

Wouldn't bifasciatus from the same location as the type specimen be the "best" representative?

Lew

[Bas Pels]

You would be certain these are and will be bifasciatum. But the typelocation is merely a matter of coincidence. The best representative could just as well be defined as the one in the heart of the distribution, the the first population ever - which will be inpossible to find

[Willem Heijns]

Your topic is developing into something quite different Jonathan.

It is all about what you believe in. Let me try and explain.

What do you believe Paratheraps bifasciatus is? This question seems not too difficult. Paratheraps bifasciatus is a cichid species. But then the next question arises: What do you believe a cichlid species is? And here opinions start to differ. Some don't believe in species at all (execept for classification purposes). These people say the only real things in nature (in regard to this) are organisms and populations. Which raises the question: What do you believe a population is? In my view the terms population and species are interchangeable in this type of discussion. The same questions need to be answered and the same problems solved.

Back to our bifasciatus. Given the variability of this cichlid fish there is no way of telling which ones are the "best" of the "real" representatives of what we call Paratheraps bifasciatus. Formally (and by definition), the type specimens are the only ones that can claim the name. But the type specimens have been dead since 1864. In our case Franz Steindachner had only one specimen from which he described Paratheraps bifasciatus in 1864. It had been given to the Museum in Vienna (Austria) by Karl Heller.
But then, your question was whether to regard specimens from the same location as the type as such. In our case the location given for this new species was "Mejico". And that doesn't help us either.

Anyway, if you are interested in a more general discussion on this, I think we better start a new topic in the Taxonomy forum. Ingo Schindler would like that, wouldn't you Ingo?

[TheFishGuy]

You know... All I really want to do is breed these for B.A.P. I just don't want to be handing out hybrids...

[LewC]

But then, your question was whether to regard specimens from the same location as the type as such. In our case the location given for this new species was "Mejico". And that doesn't help us either.

I was afraid of something like that.

Lew

[TheFishGuy]

Well, during all of this.... They've spawned... I have wrigglers this morning... Should I turn these in for B.A.P. as;

Paratheraps Bifasciatum (Aquarium strain)

????? Then when they go in the B.A.P. Auction bid on them myself???

[Willem Heijns]

Turn them in for FAP.

[TheFishGuy]

.......What's FAP? OR was that a typ o? LOL

[Willem Heijns]

Simple: FAP = Feeding Award Program.

[TheFishGuy]

Well, you wouldn't believe what I've been through with these fry... They hatched this morning and within 20 minutes they had eaten 95% of them! I netted out the rest of what I could find and took they fry with me to pittsburgh. LOL I just finished cleaning them all off of ditrius and poo... I've got 78 of them... I'm their new mom...

[Bas Pels]

So you are not only in doubt about their purity, you also know they did not get parental care - needed for imprenting. In fact, you know the fry decended from parents which failed to provide the care themselves

This means you have not 1, but 2 reasons NOT to raise them

[TheFishGuy]

I like to raise them for the challenge... It's fun Besides, I've got aline on some more chacamax bifas