Callochromis macrops disease

[zencakd]

Dear all,

I keep c. macrops Ndole red for several months now. I started with a group of 7 adult female and 4 semi adult males (about 10cm) in 1200l tank together with a big group of petrochromis trevawasae. I know there were too many males but I had to buy the whole group only. There were OK but after some time the male after male died. I thougth it was due to agression because males fighted all the time. But now I have the last male and he has the same problem as the previous ones. Please see the attached picture - all males started to lose the color as you can see on the picture. It looks like some fungus but I'm not sure. The most interesting fact is that all females are doing fine and had many, many fries! This proves that fish is doing fine. Except the males...

Any ideas? Thank you for any clue how to safe my last male!

David

[Thomas Andersen]

Hmm, I have never seen this before, but as it is located in the belly region, I suspect it's caused by an internal bacterial infection in the digestive system. You could try using medication containing Nifurpirinol or Metronidazole.

Good luck with him!

Thomas

[zencakd]

Thank you Thomas for your reply! I don't think it could be internal bacterial infection in digestive system because I have treated new petrochromis with metro 2 months ago. What I don't understand is why only males...

David

[Melchior]

I have had wildcaught C. macrops 'Ndole red' once, and they all died within a few weeks. Same symptoms as you describe. And also after they started to show coloration. I ended up with 3 females or so. And they didn't die...

But I don't have any clue what caused it.
The shop-owner also had no clue, but suggested something seen at malawi-males. Some of them die, right after they start showing off to females.

Good luck finding the cause!

And isn't 'metro' only effective against flagellates? It isn't an antibiotic. (Wich should be used to treat infections).

[zencakd]

To Melchior: this is interesting. My last male died a week ago, so I have only females I didn't find the clue and now I'm looking for new males. All females look very healthy!!!

David

[zencakd]

These are pictures of my males before they started to loose the color and die... I have more than 60 fries from them, so I'm really interested if this happens again after they mature.

Regards,

David

[Melchior]

Very surprising we have had exactly the same problems with exactly the same specie!
Are there fellow forummembers who would like to guess what could have caused this?

[Thomas Andersen]

Well, the answer need not be so mysterious. A good guess would be stress, caused by the aggression among the males, leading to an outburst of flagelattes and/or harmfull bacteria. When stressed the fishes immune system gets down, and they are not able to cope with the flagelattes or bacteria that are naturally found in the digestive system. As the cause is stress related it will normally not affect non-stressed fishes, like the females you both mentioned, as the problem is located inside the stressed out fishes so to speak, and not something infectious present in the water.

All the best, Thomas

[Melchior]

Thanks for your reply!

Flagellates & infections. True, that could be possible.
But I treated the fish against flagellates & bacterial infections (because it was my guess as well). But that didn't have any effect. And with flagellates & bacterial infections, I would have expected the males to die around the same time (like in a couple of days). Not spreaded in a couple of weeks. And also, I suppose stressed males won't show their color so easily.
On the other hand, are the medications against those diseases quite heavy. Those could also cause (even more) stress.

Although I find stress-caused flagellates & infections plausible, I still have some doubts.

[Thomas Andersen]

Thanks for your reply!

Flagellates & infections. True, that could be possible.
But I treated the fish against flagellates & bacterial infections (because it was my guess as well). But that didn't have any effect.

Possibly because you didn't remove the stress factor present in the tank, in this case remove some males.

And with flagellates & bacterial infections, I would have expected the males to die around the same time (like in a couple of days).

No, as the males did not neccesarily get stressed at the same time, they will not die at the same time. As I said above it's not something present in the water.

And also, I suppose stressed males won't show their color so easily.

Yes, they do, actually it's one of the warnings signs. To have several full colored C. macrops males in the same tank, is a major stress factor and a call for trouble. They will display and defend their territories, showing their best colors (you could call it a way too long adrenaline kick), until they are so exhausted their immune system gets down. Any behaviour out of the ordinary is stressful, including constant displaying

All the best, Thomas

[zencakd]

Very interesting analysis Thomas! What kind of drugs would you use to treat callochromis against flagellates & bacterial infections? Friend of mine gave my one adult male (they are really scarce here in Czech), so I want to be ready this would happen again. Thank you again!

David

[Thomas Andersen]

Hi David,

for flagellates you can use any medication containing metronidazole, and for bacterial infections, both internal and external I usually use this product: http://www.aquarium-munster.com/Eng/GB_ ... _Teich.asp

It's made for garden ponds, but in works fine in the aquarium, but you should use 2-4 times more than the amount labelled, otherwise the effect is too weak. Remember that the tank should have plenty of oxygen when using medication, by addition of an extra powerhead etc.

I don't think you will experience this again with a single male. With all the females around him and no competition/stress from other males, he couldn't have found a better place to be

Good luck with your new male!

Thomas

[Melchior]

The medication against the bacterial-part often contains a substance called 'nifurpirinol'. Also, the treatment should be repeated after about 4 days (because of surviving oocysts in the gut). I have 'Sera Baktopur Direkt'. But the Aquamor-1 medication also contains the nifurpirinol and is therefore also suiteble.

[zencakd]

You will NOT believe it! The adult male is gone again after 4 weeks. Famales and petros are all fine! Petros are even mating. Same trouble as you can see on previous pic

David

[zencakd]

Dear all, I am trying to open this discusion again with a hope that somebody else identified the right problem and treatment. Friend of my who keeps Petrochromis, put about 10 of these to 3000 liter tank and - exatly same results! I went to breeder that I bought the fish from and he keeps & breed the fish in about 400 liter tank without any problem in last 5 years! There are like 3 active males in the tank, chasing all the time but no injury or loss.

Thank you,

David

[thepack]

I have had the same problem with Callochromis melanostigma in a 480 l aquarium. None of the other fish seem to be affected. I am very fond of this group 0f fishes but I don't want to spend any more time and money until I can find the solution to this problem.
I will continue to watch this thread with great interest. I hope someone can help us with this problem.
Reid