all by myself?

[lizzytobias]

I developed an interest in these fish about a decade ago, and it amazes me just how friendly they are. A local cafe had one rather large red devil in the tank alone, and it always seemed one of the most mournful fish I ever saw. Though I don't think they like LARGE crowds, I always thought of them as somewhat social. Then again, my mentor in the fish arts always bought breeds in half dozens...well, whenever possible, so I guess mentally I always think of them in groups.

[y ddraig goch]

Hmmmm! I voted "I don't agree" before reading the thread......this on the basis that I keep some singletons in community tanks (I don't enjoy species tanks, I'm not in the hobby to breed fish.) This issue really isn't about singletons though as they do interact with other fish and some species seem to adapt well to this lifestyle. That's fortunate in the cases where they become very aggressive when defending a breeding territory.

I've never kept a large fish in solitary in fact a short spell in a Q tank is just about the only time any of my fish would spend time alone. The interaction between species, mates, parents and young, that's everything to me.

[James Shingler]

To me the proposition is rather draconian.

Why select cichlids as your target?

Why not say no one should keep a lone animal of any species?

As you can see, once you expand it the idea, most pets becomes a matter of being cruel to the animal by depriving it of its natural stimulus.

As has been said many animals become a bit funny in the head if kept in solitary confinement.

But a pet, fish (or cichlid) need not be like this even if kept on its own.

Habitat enrichment and interaction with its owner can stimulate it. (Just like other pets)

Not that I have ever kept a cichlid alone for any length of time. (To me the interest is in thier interactions with each other not with me)
But I see nothing more wrong about keeping a pet Oscar than keeping a pet rat, snake, spider or hamster etc.

[Bas Pels]

(To me the interest is in thier interactions with each other not with me)
But I see nothing more wrong about keeping a pet Oscar than keeping a pet rat, snake, spider or hamster etc.

Dear James

I hope I did not - by shortening your epistel, misquote.

It is funny I fulhaertly agree with what you wrote between bracets () but fulheartly disagree with the other quoted part.

Why disagree? A spider, or a hamster, is not a social creature, in fact, they preferrr to be left alone - thus the problems breeding them - oscars, and as far as I know all other cichlids, are in a certain setent not solitary

Many piscivorous cichlids life in pairs when adults - take for example Petenia, or other social settings (P dovii is daid to life in pairs, but in a cerain lake in a harem, for now these are equal, als all social groupes)

Those fishes (or animals for that matter) which preferr te be alone, should, naturally, be kept alone, others not

[James Shingler]

Hi Bas Pels

To be honest, I did not know Oscars are social. (I keep Tang cichlids almost exclusively)
A better example would be what? There must be cichlids that live mostly on their own in the wild?
There are some social hamster species and spider species (rats too are also naturally social but make excellent single pets)

But to be honest its not a case of what they naturally are (social or solitary), its a matter of how well they adapt to being kept as pets?

Its a common mistake............give animals natural surroundings and expect them to do well.
No they adapt and prosper in many man made environments better than they do in the wild.
They clearly live longer?

But yes I agree, this is not my reason for keeping cichlids (having a devoted pet) but I do not feel its fully wrong headed or should be banned or discouraged.

[Bas Pels]

Its a common mistake............give animals natural surroundings and expect them to do well.
No they adapt and prosper in many man made environments better than they do in the wild.
They clearly live longer?

Here I disagree again, but this discussion would be off topic - whether an animal would prefer to be a pet.

rats too are also naturally social but make excellent single pets

This isright, but why are rats this excellent? What I see is they need comradeship, and for lack af a fellow rat, they accept humans. Excellent pets, certainly. However although I prefer fish above rats, I'm quite certain rats are (much) more intelligent, and adaptable

[James Shingler]

I would not dispute that.
But I would dispute that attempting to attack the owner or front glass etc is a direct result of depriving the Cichlid of cichlid company.
I would contend, its just a result of depriving the cichlid of interaction with other animals.
Interact with your lone cichlid (including dayly handling) if you want to keep em this way (on their own) and you will not see this distressing attack behaviour.