Some news on Plankton-eater M'buna

[Philippe Burnel]

To understand the problem (really complex) the better is to read the publication.
If you didn't I can send the pdf file (give me your email by PM)

Where does this drawing from Ribbink et al (1983) fit into this new arrangement?
http://malawicichlids.com/mw09000a.htm

zebroides, without any doubt.




To resume the different problems :
1/ Hemichromis afer (type locality unknown, except Lake Malawi) seems to have many différences with the fishes we know now as Cynotilapia afra (see the drawning above, there are also pictures of syntypes in Tawil's paper). The melanic pattern, without vertical bars, the teeth are different.
2/ What we know as C. afra has been also described as Microchromis zebroides (Type locality : Likoma)
3/ So as we don't know really what is afra the name available is zebroides

4/ H. afer is the type species of Cynotilapîa but... what is H afer ???? see 1/ !
5/ So difficult to give the genus name Cynotilapia without knowing its type species.
6/ That's why Patrick uses the next valid name Microchromis

6/ To give again the name afra to cichlids we know as afra, the 1rst thing is to find the true afra !
Difficult without knowing the type locality.

Anyway, there is a problem : Patrick explains that the teeth of the true afra (syntypes) are very large, caniniforme and there are only 3 or 4 of these large teeth (M. zebroides having many small teeth).

This remind me and old picture I 've made of "Cynotilapia sp galyreya" which seems to have identical teeth to H. afer.

http://burnel.perso.neuf.fr/Mal/galireya_dents.jpg


So the problem remains about the use of Cynotilapia as genus name, and Patrick doesn't say anything else (for many years now)


Patrick is very busy but I hope i'll explain the problem here better than me.

Philippe

[nick a]

I have the paper already...Thanks though!...just takes me a while to read and digest.

I see that @ this site already the catalog has been modified to eliminate Cynotilapia sp mbamba and replace it with Cynotilapia aurifrons and that C. afra is an 'empty' file while Cynotilapia zebroides has been filled with all the former C. afra specimen photos......Microchromis still an 'abandoned' genus....

I'm certainly waiting in anticipation for the new species to be described for the former C. afra Cobwe variant which clearly does not fit the description of the C. (or M.) zebroides...in fact wouldn't a hair-splitting interpretation put all the yellow dorsal former afra variants like the Jalo Reef outside zebroides?

I am pleased to drop the 'widely used "Mbamba" ' so that I can call this fish a goldbrow

Let me be the first to say to all, "Great work on really clarifying this group so "all discussions (even multi-national ones) will be centered on a common acceptance".......

[Juan Artigas]

Identification for Cynotilapia afra given
By Juan Miguel Artigas Azas

The most likely identification for Cynotilapia afra is given by Ad Konings after digging into the historic aspects of the collection of the type material and comparing its features. Microcromis is thus kept as a junior synonym of Cynotilapia. Comments on the validity of Cynotilapia aurifrons are also offered in this article published today in The Cichlid Room Companion.

Konings, Ad. 2011. "Some critical remarks on Cynotilapia and Microchromis". The Cichlid Room Companion. Retrieved on December 20, 2011, from: http://www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=369

See also:

Cynotilapia
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/genus.php?id=10

Cynotilapia afra
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?id=29 (open access)

Cynotilapia zebroides
http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?id=370

[nick a]

Some sense begins to take shape. However I need to test my understanding.

Is this a 'New' style afra or is it a 'zebroides'?

Please point out specifics in comparison/contrast using the photo in the profiles here of
"A territorial male Cynotilapia afra in Same Bay" and "Cynotilapia zebroides male at Undu Reef"

This poor image included just to show subdom male & females:

[Juan Artigas]

Nick would you PLEASE attach the pictures to your posts not link them? So I don't have to delete your post and those following the discussion when the links get broken. Thanks for your consideration to this

[adkonings]

Hi Nick, I think your photos show C. zebroides that have been in the aquarium for some time. The large size, more common for C. afra, is probably because they have been eating well for some time. Most C. afra have a very dark body because the vertical bars blend together leaving very little blue but in your fish the bars have more the dimensions of C. zebroides. In the lake both species are best told apart by the color of females because among the C. afra you can have individual males that do show a little barring pattern (like the photo of C. afra in Same Bay) and are then difficult to tell apart from the sympatric C. zebroides. The latter is normally found in shallower water than C. afra. One would perhaps not make the difference between the two species were it not for the fact that they are found within short distance of each other and that the females (in the lake) are quite different in coloration. I have not measured any Cynotilapia yet to find if there are other differences (morphological) that one can use to tell these two apart. C. zebroides is the most attractively colored of the two species and I don't think C. afra has ever been collected in the wild for the hobby (but of course there can be a stray individual in a shipment of C. zebroides).

[nick a]

Thanks for those observations Ad. That particular group had caused me some issues even before the current revisions because of the overlap on a few of the metrics I applied to differentiate the former afra and mbamba types. Some years ago I attempted to clarify/codify some of those in this article
http://www.hillcountrycichlidclub.com/newsletter/ll-aug09.pdf but had to conclude in the end that it can sometimes still be just a subjective call.

I'm hoping that the new afra/zebroides/aurifons divisions can be fine tuned to add clarity for scientists hobbyist alike!

BTW: the updates to the profile section that you've done here in regards to this topic are a very much appreciated and have added significantly to the above mentioned goal.