Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Discussion about cichlid conservation and captive bred programs

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Pete B
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Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby Pete B » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:55 pm

Everyone throughout the hobby knows that this species is critically endangered and the efforts taken to try and prevent them from becoming extinct in the wild. But it appears that for some a little more money in their pocket is more important than the survival of a species. I have been told that Cichlidenstadl in Germany imported "Wild" specimens at the end of May or beginning of June. There is a video on facebook of them in the purchasers tank.

Are there no regulations on the import of endangered species?

What would be the reaction if this were ivory for sale?

Mattia Matarrese
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Re: Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby Mattia Matarrese » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:50 am

Hi Pete, one of my friends on Facebook actually posted a video of his "new" wild Saulosi, but then he removed it because he was probably getting harassed by the bad comments.
But before accusing Anyone it would be better to ask the direct people (in this case Cichlidenstadl) if those fish were really purchased there and if so why are they even selling them.

Many people write and post lies just to get a bit of attention and fame... ;)


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Darrell Ullisch
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Re: Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby Darrell Ullisch » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:11 pm

The species is listed on the IUCN Red List as "of Concern", not "Endangered". nor is it protected by CITES. As for obtaining wild fish, the natural location as I understand it is a protected park, so it seems to me that any collection done there would be illegal. However, I have heard that some exporters have ponds located near the lake where they are raising fish and calling them "wild". I would imagine Ad Konings could clarify some of this better.

So it is not illegal to sell wild collected fish, but it is probably illegal to collect them. Not sure how one works around that.
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

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Philippe Burnel
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Re: Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby Philippe Burnel » Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:05 am

I don't think that Taiwanee Reef is included in a preserved area.
Anyway even if the species is not protected, everybody knows that it is endangered.
Many efforts are made to reintroduce it in its natural habitat, it's quite a pity if some guys don't take care of this and catch fishes release by others...

Philippe

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Darrell Ullisch
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Re: Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby Darrell Ullisch » Sun Jun 26, 2016 8:51 am

This is the IUCN Red List page: http://www.iucnredlist.org/details/61175/0. I used the wrong label before, it is listed as Vulnerable, but it is still not listed as Endangered. That term has a specific meaning, and one should be more cautious in its use. And the unfortunate truth is that there is nothing illegal about selling endangered animals if they are not protected by the laws of some country. It is morally reprehensible, but not illegal.

You do, however, bring up an interesting question, Philippe. The collectors certainly couldn't have any way of telling the original wild stock from the introduced stock, so there would still be some question as to the validity of the label "wild". I would think importers would be more cautious for that reason alone.

Importation of "wild" saulosi certainly isn't a necessity. It is becoming one of the most common Mbuna species bred in the aquarium hobby. We need to educate aquarists better about these species that are losing ground in the wild, whether from overfishing or habitat destruction. Remove the market for wild fish and the motive to collect them goes with it.
There are two kinds of error: blind credulity and piecemeal criticism. Sound skepticism is the necessary condition for good discernment; but piecemeal criticism is an error. - Egyptian proverb

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zenins
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Re: Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby zenins » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:24 am

Darrell Ullisch wrote:Importation of "wild" saulosi certainly isn't a necessity. It is becoming one of the most common Mbuna species bred in the aquarium hobby. We need to educate aquarists better about these species that are losing ground in the wild, whether from overfishing or habitat destruction. Remove the market for wild fish and the motive to collect them goes with it.


Agreed

Pete B
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Re: Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby Pete B » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:08 pm

Many people have contributed to the Stuart Grant Conservation Fund to try to help the survival of this species in it's natural habitat.
I was fortunate enough to be part of the 2014 and 2015 release, but whether these were the released captive bred or truly wild stock is irrelevant. Both the exporter and importer know how endangered this species is. The exporter should not have collected them and any importer with any morals seeing them on the availability list, would not have imported them.


As for the "Red list", it is 10 years out of date,
I did forward information on the numbers we saw before the releases, but this was part of the reply I received.
"These assessment were some of the first to be conducted and published in 2006 and are due to be updated. Unfortunately the update of Red List assessments is largely dependent upon us raising funds to do so – not so easy these days, especially as we have the whole globe to deal with. We are hopeful we might find funds to update all the E Africa FW species soon but nothing is guaranteed of course (fingers crossed)."

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JHG
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Re: Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby JHG » Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:47 pm

Ps saulosi are one of my favourite species. Why anyone would still purchase wild caught saulosi when the state if them in their natural habitat is threatened is beyond me.

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SergeS
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Re: Wild Ps. saulosi imported?

Postby SergeS » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:49 am

Philippe Burnel wrote:I don't think that Taiwanee Reef is included in a preserved area.
Anyway even if the species is not protected, everybody knows that it is endangered.


Yes, as far as I know the only "no-go" areas are the south-western part of the lake and the entire coast of Mozambique. Taiwanee Reef is part of an enclave (Malawian waters) in the Mozambiqian part of the lake, but as such it's not covered by Mozambique laws, but by Malawi laws.

All this makes exporting WC Saulosi morally rejectable at best, but as there are no options for enforcement, it's not illegal. The surest way to stop exports is for "us" to stop buying :)


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