Breeding/Tumbling/Breeder Box

Q&A About Lake Malawi Cichlids

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DireWolf
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:39 pm

Breeding/Tumbling/Breeder Box

Post by DireWolf » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:58 am

Hi Pam,

I am breeding a Placidochromis species, I strip after 3 days and tumble because the females swallow or spit, (not sure) within 2 days. As well, getting chased around by males and not eating for a few weeks is not good for their well-being, so I want them to get back to normal routine and start eating ASAP.

Tumbling is working and am getting fry. However, it seems though I do get 30-40 eggs that make it to head and tail wigglers, it seems many are simply dying off in the tumbler to the point where I have maybe 10- 15 left by the time they are free swimming. The water is clean and will have 4-5 tumblers going at once, and breeder boxes in the tank. Once in the breeder box I have a very high survival rate. The tank is tumblers and breeder boxes alone, no other fish

At times, I have tried the tumbler low at this stage but dead ones can get stuck to live ones and kill them from fungus. Other times I have the air in the tumbler high so they won't get suck, but maybe the egg sacs burst from bouncing around too much, not sure. I figured by keeping them moving it is better than sitting on the bottom not moving and having a dead one get stuck to a live one and killing it. I do check several times a day to remove any dead ones.

I am using Ziss Zet-85 tumblers which have a concave, and not flat bottom. If the tumbler air is low, they will all bunch up together.

I found an answer you provided to someone way back in 2003, in quotes below.

2003 Pam Quote “Remember once the heads and tails pop out you don't need to tumble them, some leave them in the hatcher, others let them fall to the bottom of the tank where they sit for a few days absorbing the rest of the egg sac, before they start free swimming.”

My question is, related to the quote. How much head and tail needs to be popped out before I can put them in a breeder box where they will be basically just sitting on the bottom and not tumbling at all? i.e. if I see the heads and tails pop out one morning, should I give them X number of days and them into a breeder box. At this point, no more tumbling, but at least little chance a live one will get stuck to a dead fungused one.

Thanks in advance,
Cheers
Greg

Pam Chin
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Re: Breeding/Tumbling/Breeder Box

Post by Pam Chin » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:08 pm

Hi Greg,

It sounds like you are having issues with the tumbler. I have not used the ziss tumbler, mainly because it looks very complicated, and the "vessel" that holds the eggs is very large, so I can see some having issues with air volume.

I still stand by my quote... “Remember once the heads and tails pop out you don't need to tumble them, some leave them in the hatcher, others let them fall to the bottom of the tank where they sit for a few days absorbing the rest of the egg sac, before they start free swimming.”

You can move the eggs that have heads and tails to their own tank. At this stage they don't need air to move them, they can move themselves.

Keep in mind it is called "tumbling" but you really don't want much movement in the eggs at all. When they are inside the females mouth they are all bunched up together and do fine. You want to simulate the movement that the female does to hatch the eggs, it is very subtle, and there is very little movement. She gently pulls water over the eggs and thru her gils.

You might consider a different style tumbler, the concept is the same, but the vessel you use can make a difference.

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